Dr. Jeffrey McCune

We didn't want anybody to actually bash us.

So the safest way to be was discreet, right?

And so the notion that so many Black gay men now are like online trying to expose DL men, I always ask,

Go back 30 years with yourself or 20 years with yourself.

Would you have wanted somebody to expose your development into sexuality?

Yeah, and I think, you know, one of the things you're pointing to, Kai, that I really like is there have always been DL men, trade, right?

Men who have sex with men who don't identify as being gay or bisexual in our communities, right?

But it's now profitable to expose those men, right?

On social media, on television, right?

Across the internet, right?

It's profitable, right?

But for me, I'm really trying to, you know, understand what are the motivations for people who want to kind of create new Black criminals.

Because I'm not one of them.

I'm not interested in creating some new Black criminals.

We got enough folks, you know.

New Black criminals.

Coming up, but somehow the DL codes for a certain kind of truculent masculinity, a kind of like, dare I say, thug masculinity or lay it down masculinity that people are as much as they are repelling this, they are attracted to it.

Stay with us.

Can I add something that I think that we can't leave this conversation without talking about how the DL has historically also coded a certain relationship to masculinity.

So somehow masculinity is tethered to who you sleep with.