Dr. Jeffrey Smalldon

And there being signs of...

I thought it was a very interesting observation and it made me think really for the first time that probably both of them were there.

Those came later.

But particularly if it was both of them, still nobody has any idea how they got in and out of that lab together.

Without anybody seeing, they would have had to have had blood all over them.

Well, I decided to start graduate school and begin work with my PhD in psychology with the hospital murders still very much preoccupying me at that point.

They that they hadn't been solved when I began graduate school.

And I thought and I was kind of a compulsive reader of true crime back then.

But I thought, I wonder if there's a way for a more direct avenue of access into the brains of people who kill.

And maybe if I could find one, they might improve my thinking about the kind of person who could have killed my two coworkers.

That was my thinking.

And so I thought the first thing I thought was, well, Bundy is down in Florida serving two death sentences.

I'll try to contact him.

And that's another whole chapter we've talked about.

But I had a brief, very interesting correspondence with Bundy.

But it became clear to me that it wasn't going to progress in the way I wanted it to.

He wasn't willing to really have a dialogue with me.

And I thought, well, who else might I talk to?

I knew John Wayne Gacy was serving a death sentence in Illinois, convicted of 33 murders.

So I decided to contact him.