Dr. Jodi Vittori

It doesn't have to be. And I will push back on one of your first sentences just a little bit. There are cases where you have incredibly authoritarian regimes, even totalitarian regimes, that don't engage in large-scale grand corruption. So they're still hideous. Think Pol Pot in Cambodia. Lots of petty corruption, people paying bribes to just survive.

But Pol Pot was not buying mansions in the south of France or anything during this, or Ayeri in Tanzania, the entire population was impoverished under his regime, but he wasn't buying fancy mansions somewhere in the States or something like that. So they are rare, but you can have authoritarian and even totalitarian regimes that are not kleptocracies. But most kleptocracies will be at least...

But Pol Pot was not buying mansions in the south of France or anything during this, or Ayeri in Tanzania, the entire population was impoverished under his regime, but he wasn't buying fancy mansions somewhere in the States or something like that. So they are rare, but you can have authoritarian and even totalitarian regimes that are not kleptocracies. But most kleptocracies will be at least...

But Pol Pot was not buying mansions in the south of France or anything during this, or Ayeri in Tanzania, the entire population was impoverished under his regime, but he wasn't buying fancy mansions somewhere in the States or something like that. So they are rare, but you can have authoritarian and even totalitarian regimes that are not kleptocracies. But most kleptocracies will be at least...

competitive authoritarianism have significant backsliding if they've been democracies ever because you can't have rule by thieves in a functioning governing democracy and have people not protesting and voting the bums out and so forth so you need to make sure you stay in power to run your kleptocracy so they'll at least be very shaky on the democracy side all the way up to full-fledged totalitarian dictatorships like kim jong-un or you know north korea or something like that

competitive authoritarianism have significant backsliding if they've been democracies ever because you can't have rule by thieves in a functioning governing democracy and have people not protesting and voting the bums out and so forth so you need to make sure you stay in power to run your kleptocracy so they'll at least be very shaky on the democracy side all the way up to full-fledged totalitarian dictatorships like kim jong-un or you know north korea or something like that

competitive authoritarianism have significant backsliding if they've been democracies ever because you can't have rule by thieves in a functioning governing democracy and have people not protesting and voting the bums out and so forth so you need to make sure you stay in power to run your kleptocracy so they'll at least be very shaky on the democracy side all the way up to full-fledged totalitarian dictatorships like kim jong-un or you know north korea or something like that

Well, autocracies can come in a lot of different forms. So you asked me a couple of different types and they work different ways. The one we most think of is probably Russia and it's, you know, think of their oligarchs.

Well, autocracies can come in a lot of different forms. So you asked me a couple of different types and they work different ways. The one we most think of is probably Russia and it's, you know, think of their oligarchs.

Well, autocracies can come in a lot of different forms. So you asked me a couple of different types and they work different ways. The one we most think of is probably Russia and it's, you know, think of their oligarchs.

They're not quite oligarchs nowadays, but the types of oligarchs is very, very tiny inner grouping that controls the Russian economy can decide to send it to war in devastating ways and, you know, devastate their next door neighbor in Ukraine. The lack of democracy in there, they have kind of fake votes.

They're not quite oligarchs nowadays, but the types of oligarchs is very, very tiny inner grouping that controls the Russian economy can decide to send it to war in devastating ways and, you know, devastate their next door neighbor in Ukraine. The lack of democracy in there, they have kind of fake votes.

They're not quite oligarchs nowadays, but the types of oligarchs is very, very tiny inner grouping that controls the Russian economy can decide to send it to war in devastating ways and, you know, devastate their next door neighbor in Ukraine. The lack of democracy in there, they have kind of fake votes.

But it's not obviously it's not a functioning real democracy, but just the huge amount of money, what we call asset stripping and so forth that occurs there. That's one kind. You have other kleptocracies like in Afghanistan under the Taliban, part one and the United States, where it's just a free for all. In Russia's case, you know exactly who's in charge.

But it's not obviously it's not a functioning real democracy, but just the huge amount of money, what we call asset stripping and so forth that occurs there. That's one kind. You have other kleptocracies like in Afghanistan under the Taliban, part one and the United States, where it's just a free for all. In Russia's case, you know exactly who's in charge.

But it's not obviously it's not a functioning real democracy, but just the huge amount of money, what we call asset stripping and so forth that occurs there. That's one kind. You have other kleptocracies like in Afghanistan under the Taliban, part one and the United States, where it's just a free for all. In Russia's case, you know exactly who's in charge.

So Sudan right now would be a great example of that, just total chaos sort of quote-unquote. And then you have sort of the more refined sort of kleptocracies. Think of Hungary or the UAE. That can be nice places to go visit. They seem to have some level of rule of law when you're there. You're not getting, you know, this is not Afghanistan or Sudan, clearly.

So Sudan right now would be a great example of that, just total chaos sort of quote-unquote. And then you have sort of the more refined sort of kleptocracies. Think of Hungary or the UAE. That can be nice places to go visit. They seem to have some level of rule of law when you're there. You're not getting, you know, this is not Afghanistan or Sudan, clearly.

So Sudan right now would be a great example of that, just total chaos sort of quote-unquote. And then you have sort of the more refined sort of kleptocracies. Think of Hungary or the UAE. That can be nice places to go visit. They seem to have some level of rule of law when you're there. You're not getting, you know, this is not Afghanistan or Sudan, clearly.

You know, they're kind of shiny, the nice downtown areas and so forth. And they're a much more subtle sort of form of kleptocracy. You know, Hungary is the classic example. Orban calls this country an illiberal democracy. That's his goal. Of course, it's an oxymoron. Liberal with a small L, obviously, not a big L. It's an oxymoron.