Dr John Izzo

It is really explicit that there will never again be free and fair elections.

Democracy, according to Yarvin, democracy is a waste of space and time and need not happen.

You'll end up with Russian-style elections where Trump wins 83.7% because they think of a number, draw it out of a hat, and that's what they get.

And while you still have electronic counting machines, it's really easy to put your thumb on the scales of those and get whatever result you want.

So, first of all, is there anything that you disagree with?

If not, I'm still quite curious as to across the Western world, if we were to aim for a post-capitalist actual democracy predicated on giving people a flourishing future that actually worked, where they were not being lied to, where nobody was playing games with limbic hijack and trying to persuade them to vote for one or other side of a system that's basically still a system.

What would an evolving, flourishing democracy that was actually working look and feel like?

Suzette, is this somewhere that feels interesting to go?

It's the evening over here.

I've had all day to think about it.

Has it ever been what people actually want?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Or how can we find a vision that everybody shares?

OK, so let's move to John, because John, I remember hearing in your podcast you quoted Tony Blair, who is not my favourite person, I have to say.

But he said something along the lines, you'll get this better, that no government makes long term decisions because the cost of making long term decisions happens now and the penalty for not making long term decisions happens long after you've left office.

So the system that allows that to happen is not a sustainable system.

I don't think we've got as long as I think Suzette thinks we've got before we hit actual biophysical collapse.

We've got a relatively short period of time to turn the bus from the edge of the cliff and the bus that swerves away from the cliff will not be driven by the people currently driving.

It needs to have a system that is not predicated on locking in short-term decisions.