Dr. Marc Breedlove

And Simon knew there was a huge sex difference there in rats.

And so he looked at the brains of gay and straight men and found a nucleus there that may or may not be the same as the SDNPOA, but is larger in men than in women.

And what he found was that the nucleus in gay men was smaller than in straight men.

And in fact, not significantly different from the size of the nucleus in women.

No, in that case it indicated either less antigen exposure or less of a response to the antigen that was there.

And Simon got even more of an uproar than I did, published his paper in Science and there were lots of people that were very skeptical, including some neuroscientists, but eventually another group replicated it.

Yeah, that he was part of some conspiracy, a gay agenda to force Americans to regard

people with same-sex orientation is somehow okay.

They were very skeptical of it.

So that was William Blyer who eventually – and there's an interesting aspect of it.

It took him a long time to get a sample big enough because, you know, Simon, it was such a horrible time in AIDS epidemic.

There were so many young men dying.

that Simon had no trouble finding enough brains to do the sample.

And then as treatment got better, the death rates of HIV started going down.

And so it took longer for William Byer to gather the samples, but eventually he did.

And even though he was skeptical of it, he saw it too.

The question about AIDS, I mean, Simon was able to address that in that he also had some straight men

who had AIDS and they weren't significantly different from other straight men.

And so it was widely interpreted as proof that sexual orientation is not a choice, that it's something that happens to you.

And of course, I don't think sexual orientation is a choice, that's true, but Simon himself made it clear