Dr. Matt Walker

Now there's nothing stopping you, however, from saying, there's still sleep in me.

I know that there is.

So I'm just going to get out of bed, go to a different room.

I'm just going to read a book, listen to a podcast.

And then only when I feel sleepy, I'm going to go back to bed because my schedule allows for it.

That's the best way I would tell you if you still think there's sleep there on the table to try and get it back.

I should also note, by the way, that for some people, when I speak with them, and it's just because you mentioned it, it's beautiful.

They will be saying, I'm so surprised because I am watching television and I'm falling asleep on the couch.

And then I get into bed and I'm wide awake and I don't know why.

And that's because in part, you've built this connection in your brain.

And when you go into the bedroom, that's what we try to do with cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia.

You spoke about it as a battleground, that it's almost this adversarial thing, which in some ways infers that at that point, you feel as though your sleep controls you, and it is a miserable feeling.

And gradually over time, what we would do is work with someone.

And at that point now, you control your sleep.

Your sleep doesn't control you.

And that is such a freedom when you get it.

But sorry, I interrupted you.

I'm so sad he's not here around anymore with us because I would have loved, he feels like he is the best sleep ambassador if there's a post child for good sleep.

This just gets so exciting to me.

And even now, when I go into the lab or I look at sleep traces from my sleep center, I'm still in awe, in bewildered awe of what the brain does.