Dr. Matt Walker

And we spoke about this in a previous episode of tools and techniques and methods to help you fall asleep.

Could this be one of them where you just start to help move yourself into this liminal state?

You take the stress off.

One of the things I hear so much at the center when people come in and they say, I've just, I always struggle to sleep and you go into depth and it's because they,

their mind starts to Rolodex through that anxiety of what I need to do and what I should do.

But also then the later it gets and the absent the sleep becomes, the more stress they get, not just about the next day, the more stress that they get about this thing called not being able to fall asleep.

And if there's something, a practice that you've taught someone that says, that's okay, I know this place and I know this situation and there's a tool I have.

And it's called a liminal state.

And if you were to train people on that method, is it a way that they finally can then cast themselves off

And it's the bridge, not necessarily just between despair and hope, but the bridge between wakefulness and sleep.

So put it at the back end, at the end of the day, rather than the front end.

Yeah.

And, you know, I love the paradox of it, that non-sleep deep rest allows you to go into sleep deep rest.

And PTSD is an anxiety disorder, it's one of many.

No one's done the head-to-head comparison where you kind of do the...

Coke, Pepsi, Dr. Pepper Sprite, QQRT, challenge between all of those.

What we do know is that if you look at each one independently, QQRT, quantity, quality, regularity, timing, if any one of those is off,

it's very difficult not to see a coexisting anxiety disorder or increase in anxiety or a mood disorder.

And I think to me, anxiety is part of that class of a broader class that I would call mood disorders.

It's relevant that we make that distinction, at least in my eyes, and I know some people may disagree, because mood and anxiety are different than emotions, and many of us clump them together.