Dr. Michael Johnston

It's much too young to be sorting people in that kind of way.

I do think that we benefit from a bit more specialisation at the other end of school, say in the last two years.

when young people are a bit more well-placed to make decisions about their futures.

And I think that we have a problem at the moment because the entire school system, with the notable exception of some schools who really put a lot into the vocational side, is very much geared towards getting students to university.

No, there hasn't.

So we've had technology for a long time, but not subjects that are so completely geared towards getting young people into apprenticeships and tertiary training, where these subjects will be very responsive to the needs of industry.

So it's the first time where we will have had formal curricula for that kind of subject.

When you look at the qualifications framework, we see bachelor's degrees at level seven and most trades qualifications at level four.

Why is that?

Do we really think that to be a skilled electrician is trivial compared with getting a Bachelor of Arts?

I can tell you that as somebody who's recently or relatively recently worked as an academic in a university, let's just say the standards are not what they were.

So I think there's no justification for that at all.

And when you look at the outcomes in terms of income and job security and things like that, the

the tradies very often have it better and they can go on to start their own businesses.

If we were to tell a 15 year old, you know, if you did a trade by the time you're 25, you might be earning a salary like this and you could start a business and you won't have any student debt.

They may choose differently.

Yeah, well, because I'm an eternal optimist.

I mean, you're right.

We have been saying this for a long time.

Well, some people have been saying this for a long time and it comes down ultimately to a cultural prejudice.