Dr Paul Dean

and let's say you sell your home or you die or your kids inherit the home, they would take that debt on.

The next owner in the house then would take on the debt because they also take on the benefit.

And they're the kind of things, David, I think we really need to be looking at.

There's lots of legal reasons why all these things are challenging, but spreading those costs over much longer periods

is one of the things that we need to do because the upfront cost element of any of these clean energy technologies is a barrier for most people out there.

It's in the States.

Ironically, it's in the States at the moment, in some individual states.

And it's just another way of looking at using the existing tax system to spread those costs over much longer periods.

And again, I think,

It's important, I suppose, to understand out there that there is a lot of people who are willing, but just financially unable, and anything the government can do, and ourselves here in academia as well, to make those more accessible and more feasible is something that's worth exploring.

Exactly.

Look, there's been a lot of talk over the last couple of months about maybe reducing, let's say, the technical barrier for entry for heat pumps into home.

And I would be very careful about those kind of things, Dave.

Like heat pumps are great as long as they don't have to heat your house a lot, you know, and we heard a lot about BERs over the last couple of weeks.

what really matters for your home for a heat pump is how much heat your house is leaking.

And if your house is leaking a lot of heat, your heat pump has to do a lot of work.

If your heat pump is doing a lot of work, it's going to cost you a lot of money.

So it's not just about looking at the heating technologies in isolation.

You have to look at the wider package.

But again, I would say as well, David, from a government perspective and from an exchequer perspective, home heating is not just about the cost of your heating bill.