Dr Paul Dean

And SEA, I think, do a really good job in this element.

Last year, SEA...

give out over 8,000 free energy upgrades to homes on lower incomes.

And that's the kind of stuff that we need to see more of.

So we do compare relatively well if we don't, but it's not always obvious.

So the carbon tax does two things.

Number one, it sends a signal into our pocket about to think about cleaner alternatives.

Now, David, that signal has been sent at the moment by high fossil fuel prices.

The other thing that the carbon tax does is that it generates revenue for us to help people move away from fossil fuels.

I think there's a really legitimate argument to put in there for stalling the carbon tax at the moment because, as I said, a lot of the heavy lifting for getting people to think about alternatives has already been done by the high fossil fuel prices.

Look, ideally, I suppose, what you want from a carbon tax perspective

you want the carbon tax to be high when fossil fuel prices are low, and you want the carbon tax to be low when fossil fuel prices are high.

And that's the kind of mechanism I suppose would be very ideal.

But at the moment, with the fossil fuel prices so high, particularly as we, I suppose, go through the summer and come into the next heating system,

it can be seen as a very punitive tax and I think we need to maybe consider other ways of funding it.