Dr. Ryan Martin
Appearances
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Where are the places where I can take a little bit of power back, right? And try and solve this problem. Can I solve the whole big problem? Maybe not, but maybe I can make a dent, you know, and do what I can do. And then, and that at least gives me some, some power to like, let things go.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. Cause that's the biggest thing is the anger. It's feels like it has to be let go. Yeah. That's the thing about anger. Like other feelings – like anger, it feels like you have to – like happy. I've never been so happy I then like went and dressed up like a clown and ran out into the street. But I've been so angry that I will kick a clown if it comes near me. So I – but there's –
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Anger is the one that feels like it has to get out of your body. Yeah. You know, it's got that gremlin and it just literally feels like it needs to leave you somehow.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Well, it's because it that's a really interesting thought. And I think it's because I think you're right. Anger tends to linger in ways that other emotions don't necessarily linger.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. And it's interesting because joy or happiness or excitement, like that tends to dissipate relatively quickly, more quickly than I think people realize, right? Those feelings don't last. Yeah.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Well, the half-life on joy, it's not very long probably. Right. But anger, you can still, like you'll go get in your car, you'll drive somewhere. Yeah. You'll start chewing the bottom ear. Like, I don't even know. Somehow I started chewing on my own teeth one time. I was like, what is even, you know, sometimes you can get so angry that you turn into a chew toy for yourself almost.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
You know, like I've just gotten so agitated. Yeah. What happens to anger if we don't process it? And then how can you process it properly? Like, like what's a legitimate way to process it? That's realistic.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Well, can we start with some of the illegitimate ways? Okay.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And I say that because it connects to something you just said, which is, um, you know, wanting, because people want it out of their body. And it feels like – and so we've been literally for thousands of years, people have been talking about catharsis as a way of ridding our body of anger and thinking of ourselves almost like pressure cookers.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
We've also got the Hitter Bait and Tackle Tees. Those are new, baby. If you like to rod and reel them, baby. Get all these and more at theovonstore.com, the only place to get our merch. Today's guest is an expert in the world of anger. He's an author, he's a researcher, he's a dean at the College of Arts, Humanities, and Social Sciences at the University of Wisconsin-Green Bay.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Like if we don't open up the valve and release this anger, we'll blow up, right? And so that's where a lot of these approaches like if you've ever heard of a rage room or like – you know, people punching a punching bag or hitting the gym or things like that, that's where those approaches come from, is this idea that we gotta let that out.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And now here's the thing, and people are gonna throw rocks when I say this, but all of the research that we have on catharsis tells us it doesn't work. Like rage, actions of getting it out physically? That it doesn't work. It feels good at the time. And so people think, well, because it feels good, it must be good for me. It must help. But what we find is two things.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
First, over time, the people who use that as their mechanism stay angry and get angrier over time. We also find that like right after, like moments after they did the study, and this is like 50 years old, right? So we've known for a long time. They did the study where they provoked people in the lab.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Then they took half of them and they put them on a bicycle and said, just ride the bike as fast as you can, right? Exercise. Exercise.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
the other the other half had to do this really ridiculous task where they were like threading coins with a needle or something like that something boring and tedious and then afterwards they they assessed to see how angry and aggressive they were and the people who worked it out on the bike were way more aggressive than the people who who you know did the other task
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Because that exercise, it doesn't do it. It keeps the angry thoughts at the surface. It keeps the intensity going, keeps your blood pressure going. What you need to do when you're angry is to actually find ways to calm down and relax. You need to take deep breaths, stuff like that. Rage rooms don't do that. Hitting a punching bag doesn't do that. Wow.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And I guess you feel like it does because, again, anger is that – it's that – I mean, it almost makes you act. It's like, you know, people do things in a fit of anger, in a fit of rage. It's like, it, it's like this energy that's, it's almost like it's always leaving a diving board, you know? So to get that to that, even in, it almost feels like inertia or whatever.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
So to get it to stop, I think is, you know, some of this kind of harrowing, I feel like, um, raid rooms invite people to engage with their anger, but do they actually work? Yeah. This is a study that came out.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I can't see who wrote it. Marcus Biddle. I don't know Marcus.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Rage Rooms. They just had one for women that they opened up.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I think is it a Rage Room or do they take them out into the woods?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
If they're taking them into the woods, I'm not getting involved with it. That's a good one. That's it. Look, I'll let as many ladies as they want just go ham inside of a bed, bath, and body works or whatever with a shovel. I'll join them. But I don't think we need to like bring anybody into the woods. Yeah, that's probably not great. Can you see what's going on here?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I think it was like a New York Times article or something.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
This was an article about rage, women rage, getting it out. Because sometimes my rage, it almost feels like it blinds me.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
You know, it's like it is so overcoming because if you don't. Yeah. So if so, if somebody doesn't process.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I mean, I think that probably truly the worst thing people can do is that cathartic expression is like breaking stuff, exercising. Those are probably the bad ways.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Right, and I guess there's a, it just feels like that because physically you're doing something. Like, yeah, obviously I'm taking an action. This is an actual physical action, then it feels like, oh, that should be helpful.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And it is what your body wants to do, right? Because, I mean, if we define anger as the emotional desire to lash out, well, then your body wants to lash out. And so if you give it that, you know, it's going to feel good. that doesn't, again, that doesn't make it good for you.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
We could talk about this with other, I mean, you know, I guess some other like bad ways to deal with your anger, but these are obvious to people is like doing drugs, right? Overeating, you know, just calling a friend and screaming at them. Like those things are bad for you. They're mean. Do they make you feel better? Sometimes in the moment they do for people, right?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
We covered a lot of ground, and he has some insightful thoughts, just talking about anger in general, and then just things that, spaces I've had trouble with anger in. I'm very grateful today to have spent time with Dr. Ryan Martenshaw.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
But sometimes I think it feels like doing one of those things is healthier than doing something physically dangerous.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yes. Yep. I think so. You know, I think you're right. Although, I mean, long term, those things can be physically dangerous, too, for sure. But but yeah. Right. Yeah. In the moment. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the that's the worry, actually, is that.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
So what we find is that people who use like if their approach to dealing with anger is I'm going to go punch this pillow or I'm going to go punch this punching bag or I'm going to tear phone books in half or whatever. What we find is that becomes it's like I used to have a soccer coach who would say practice makes permanent.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And it's like the way you practice something is how you'll do things in life. And if you practice your anger that way, well, then someday when you're mad, you're not going to control yourself and you're going to hit someone. You're going to punch someone. You're going to go after them. And so it ends up having those kinds of long-term harmful consequences. Damn, dude.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
God, I just— People don't like to hear this, by the way. When I talk about this on—just a couple weeks ago, I talked about this on Instagram, and wow. I mean, new research comes out, 150-plus studies. It's an article by a guy named Dr. Brad Bushman, who's a huge monster anger researcher and aggression researcher in the field.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And he does this study and he looks at 154 studies over time, approximately, and finds that across all these studies, what does work is when you find ways to relax, to decrease arousal in the moment, right? Grounding, deep breaths, all that stuff. What doesn't work is when you raise arousal, right? You break stuff. Of course, I share this on Instagram.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. Well, I think arousal is a great term too to use because that's what's going on. Right. You are at a heightened state of arousal. Right. And it feels like dangerous arousal. Right. But even then I could see maybe if you're going to work out or get it out, that way you're keeping the arousal at a high level. Right. Because you're keeping like at least something inside of you aroused.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Every now and then someone reaches out to me and asks if I'll –
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
No, if I'll support theirs. Like if I'll go and like do promote their rage room and I have to tell them, no. Like you obviously haven't paid attention to what I have to say.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
These places took abandoned warehouses and vacant offices and turned them into businesses made for organized chaos. Some are also marketed as an alternative to anger management. Yeah.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
The one in my town makes itself available for gender reveals.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I could see that maybe. I'm trying to think. If you beat a cushion hard enough, like – You know, a couple twins pop out of it or something. I don't know. That's wild.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Because they fill up a printer with either blue or pink toner. Oh, there you go. You trash it until it spills all over.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, I don't know if that would be – I wonder if the rage room – a lot of them I've seen – well, a lot of rooms I noticed this happened to. There was a – business like De-Evolution, where a lot of escape rooms went under, and then they turned into rage rooms. Oh, interesting.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And then they just went out of business completely and just turned into one-bedroom apartments that have like a trap door in them or whatever. Um, dude, I remember we, there used to be a place in LA downtown.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
They'd have a couple, it was like a Vietnamese establishment and you would put on like a dog bite suit and these guys would literally beat the smack out of you for like 80 bucks for 15 or 20 minutes.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
We really would. We played this game where we would pile up a bunch of, like we were a sports family, right? So we had like all sorts of gear. We'd pile all this gear in the middle of the room and we'd draft items. Like we'd each take a thing and then you'd put it on. And then we had these big plastic tinker toys and we just beat the crap out of each other. Yeah. So it was great.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
He's a lot older than me though. So I usually lost.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Well, it sounds like he was, it seems very unfair that he would do that. Yeah. He's a lot older. Like how old, like 12 years older? Just five. Oh, that's kind of fair. Even that's getting a little outside of the range of able to beat my brother age. Yeah. Agreed.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
We'll let him know. Yeah. Yeah. Here's one right here. The rage room. There we go. Oh, somebody hit a, uh.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Maybe they did hit an ink toner. Yeah. A toner cartridge. Oh, there's something that had a dangerous gas in it. They said nerve gas. Jeez. Yep. That's what you do.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. You gotta be careful. Yeah. Rate. I guess it's, I don't know if I've ever even been to one. I don't know if it was something that really excited me. So what would be healthy ways to process anger? I mean, some of them seem kind of obvious. They don't seem that much fun. Right.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I think the thing I was really, I thought was cool is just the variety of guests you've had on over the years. I mean, it was like, it was impressive. It's a cool. Thanks, man. Yeah, it was a cool group.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, no, that's true. You know, I think there's two ways of thinking about this. Like the first way is to think about, okay, when I am angry, what do I do to deal with that anger, right? And that's where that study I was just telling you about, 154 articles that essentially find you got to find ways to de-escalate, right? So- What are, what are those different mechanisms?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And there are different ones for different people, but it's, it's the, the deep breathing, it's mindful walking. Um, it is, as you go for a walk and you just think about your thoughts and try and relax, you think about nature, you think about whatever's going on. Cool study just came out by the way, that found that, um, college students who go for walks, um,
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
versus college students who go for walks and bird watch, that the bird watching is actually better for their mental health than just going for walks. Really? It's kind of peeping Tom in on nature, I feel like.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, no, you're right. It's voyeuristic. It's like, look, this bird's just trying to live its life.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I know. Think about that. Here I am. Yeah. Look at this bird just feeding his children. You're sitting there just googling in the windows. It's kind of crazy. Get out of that bird's business. Yeah.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
But I think what's happening is that it forces people to get out of their head. And so it doesn't have to be birds if you want to look at something else. If you feel more comfortable leaving those birds be, you can just be like, I'm going to identify leaves.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, I mean, there's been some real smart people, some real perverts that have come on here, some real creeps who've had all kinds.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Like, yeah, I'm just going to absorb something out here.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, and it's because then you're – it gets you out of your head to look at the thing and focus on the thing. And so like those kinds of de-escalation approaches are some of the best things to do. The truth is though there's like infinite things you can do with your anger. And so sometimes you can channel it into problem solving. You can say – because ultimately what anger gives you is energy.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Right? I mean, it gives you energy to confront the injustice. And so, you know, if you experience something that is truly unfair and you want to do something about it, well, there's lots of things you can do, right? You can protest. You can write letters to the editor. You can donate money. You can, you know, join all these causes to try and solve those problems.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
That's a really good, healthy way to deal with your anger.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, you can hire one of those planes to write something in the sky. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Stop smoking, love mom, it says on it. Yeah, nice. I know, my mom wanted me to stop.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Is that how she got you to stop? She rented a plane? Nice. She did one year. Pretty sweet of her, kind of crazy.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
That's really kind, yeah. But yeah, so you can put your anger into something. Yep. Is that a real thing you can do, like put that in? Well, I guess you already are activated. Mm-hmm.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, well, good. Well, I hope I fall in that first category. I hope I'm not one of the perverts or the creeps.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. You know, I, and this is the example I use. I came home. So when my kids were young, uh, you know, when you're, when your kids are young, like the only thing in the world you want is a little bit of time to yourself, right. At the house. And so I came home from, from work one day and I think I knew in my head, I had like 20 minutes before everybody else got home that I was just alone. Right.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And I thought, I'm just, I'm going to live my best life for 20 minutes, you know? And, and then, uh, I checked the mail and there was like a flyer in there.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
That's your best life. I feel you, dude. Guys have the worst best lives. It's like, I'm going to live it up, dude. And I'll just eat like, I'll just like find an old can of peaches or something and open them and just try one. Just like a pudding cup. Like, here we go. And then your wife comes in and you're like, oh, she's like, this is so sad.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
TBD, brother. We'll see where we end. Dr. Ryan Martin is here. You're a professor at University of Wisconsin-Green Bay. Yep, that is right. And we wanted to talk with you today about anger because that's the world you work in, right? Anger?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, this is, for 20 minutes I had this pudding cup. Yeah, but I'm going to check this mail while everybody's just letting me be. I feel you, bro. Exactly.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
So I checked the mail and there was like a flyer in there for some political candidate who was just saying like nasty stuff about this. I got so mad. So I spent that 20 minutes reading. I sent an email to the guy I didn't like saying that was BS. What's wrong with you? I sent another email to the guy I did like and said like, hey, thanks. And then I donated money to the guy I was supporting.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And so by the time I was done, family's home. But like that's what, like I was exhausted when I came home, but anger gave me the energy to do something. Like now did I solve all the world's problems? No, but like I did something and it felt better afterwards to do that.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Right, and something that's more productive than just like, yeah, just like getting some spray paint and just tagging up, yeah, writing profanity on a wall or doing, I'm trying to think of, or anything, anything that could be negative. Right, so yeah, because it was the mail that made you negative, so then you're like, what am I going to do with it now?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
We've got some spring tour dates that I got warm for you here right off the griddle. All these tickets you can get through theovon.com slash T-O-U-R. This is still the Return of the Rat Tour. And we will be coming to Toledo, Ohio, Pittsburgh, Eugene, Oregon, Kennewick, Washington, Seattle. Victoria, BC in the Canada. Belton, Texas. San Antonio. Hola. Durant, Oklahoma. Amarillo, Texas.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
But those are like safe ways, nobody's going to get hurt. Right, exactly, yep. Is pornography causing a problem in your life? Do you find yourself watching porno for longer periods of time and having trouble stopping? Is porn affecting your relationship or dating life? Well, you're certainly not alone.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Watching pornography has become so commonplace today, and oftentimes men use porn to numb the pain of loneliness, boredom, anxiety, and depression. Shame and stigma prevent men from talking about these issues and getting help for them. I want to introduce you to my friend Steve. Steve is the founder of Valor Recovery, a program to help men overcome porn abuse and sexual compulsivity.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Steve is a long-term sexual recovery member and has personally overcame the emotional and spiritual despair of abusing pornography and has dedicated his life to empowering men to do the same. Steve is an amazing person and he is a close friend of mine. I mean that. Valor Recovery helps men to develop the tools necessary to have a healthier sex life.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Their coaches are in long-term recovery and will be your partner, mentor, and spiritual guide to transcend these problematic behaviors. To learn more about Valor Recovery, please visit them at www.valorrecoverycoaching.com or email them at admin at valorrecovery. Thank you. So when anger shows up in us, what is it a warning us of?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yep, exactly. So I've been working at the university for the last 19 years. I've been teaching psychology for 18 of those years. I actually just started a year ago as the dean of... uh, arts, humanities, and social sciences. Um, but most of that time I've been researching and actually even before that I was researching anger, uh, and teaching and writing about anger.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, I mean, it's one of it. So this is true of all emotions, that when we feel them, it's one of our brain's ways of providing us information, right? So when you're scared, that's one of your brain's ways of saying, hey, there's a threat, right? There's danger around. When you're sad, it means you've lost something and it's your brain's way of telling you that.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Anger is one of your brain's ways of telling you that someone's treating you badly, that you've experienced this injustice and that you got to do something about it. And then when your fight or flight system kicks in, that's your brain's way of saying, like giving you the energy to deal with that.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And so one of the best ways to handle anger is to channel that energy into solving whatever that problem is, right? Something positive.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. Yeah, I feel like – but if you – some of it could go – because what if you tell someone like, yeah, you should get into quilting or doing something that's – and then they just quilt like an advertisement for Saw 2 or whatever because that's how angry they are. Like that would be my biggest – but I guess that would be at least a nice piece of art then they could sell. Yeah. Yeah.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I mean, so I love the Saw II quilt idea. It makes me wonder if that exists. Yeah, probably. Yeah. But we should – but, I mean, channeling your anger into art is a thing people do, right? I mean, that's a good, healthy way. I mean, poetry, other forms of writing, art. It's so hard, though.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Oh, yeah. It's so hard when I close my car door and I'm like – to then want to draw something. Unless I just write how I feel and just show it. But it's so hard. I guess that's the thing. It's like, how do you get over that? How do you get over, convert one moment into another so that you can, because that's really the key, huh?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Well, and I think this is what it takes to be, and ultimately what I want and why I'm on social media and why I write things. is because I want people to have sort of a healthier relationship with their emotions. And sometimes what that takes is like a deescalation in the moment so that you can still hang on to at least the thoughts of anger
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
in a way that is healthy, that allows you to channel them into something positive, right? Because the truth is, like, even those emails that I was talking about, I couldn't write those if I was in such a fit of rage that I wasn't making any sense, right? You've got to come down a little bit.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, even to get correct punctuation, you have to be almost like at a four. Right, right. At a nine, it's all caps. Yep. It is dangerous emojis that you can get off. You have a VPN. Yeah.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
This is one of the things that I think actually has made electronic communication kind of dangerous for people. I used to have a professor when I was in college who said, hey, when you get an exam back, I don't want you to come talk to me about it for 24 hours. So I just want you to calm, just take some time to think about it, relax. You're emoting too strongly in that first 24 hours.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Take some time. But now, and that was easier to do back then because you weren't going to see him for a couple of days anyways. You didn't have access to him the way you do now via email or whatever.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And what made you get into it? Did you have like some, some things when you was a child that got you really angry?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Now, I think when people get mad, it's so easy to fire off a quick response, to fire off an email, to fire off a tweet or a text or whatever, that people can do things when they're feeling most enraged or when they're feeling most upset.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. Yeah. And then it's really made it almost tougher in person because you don't have like when you're talking to somebody, you can't just like set them down for two or three minutes while you think about your answer and pee again or whatever you do. Yeah. Or get you a little, you know, get you a little dessert or something. But yeah, that it's almost gets like.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
we want to communicate less in person in a way because online communication is kind of easier.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, I think it is. I mean, I think it is for a couple of reasons. One is you do, and it is in some good ways, right? You have more time to think about what you want to say, and that's probably a good thing.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
But it's also easier in some bad ways in that you don't really, like right now you and I are talking to each other and everything I'm seeing, I can see how you're responding to it in your face, right? But if you and I were communicating over text, I have no idea how what I'm saying is impacting you.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, some of it was that. Some of it, you know, there's this long story about my family and what was called the Martin temper, right? And referred to mostly the men in my family who had, who were like quick to get mad. Oh, yeah. Starting with my dad, but not ending with him, right? And so both my brothers, me,
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And so it's easier for me – it might be easier in that context to say something cruel or hurtful or – Hopeful even. Yeah. Because I don't have – I'm not confronted with what it did to you when you got the message.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
So I wonder what that does to us as people over time, right? When they're – because it used to be like if you wanted to – well, I guess you could write a letter. But – But it used, yeah, you had to, there was, it used to be probably more often you had to do face to face. Right. More often.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And so you had to get the real reactions. You had to get the real feelings of what was going on. Whereas if you can just message it, it's still scary, but it's not, it doesn't, it must affect us differently emotionally over time. I wonder if that's valuable or not. Is this making any sense?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, I think, I mean, I think what happens is a couple of things. One, it's, it's, we get out of practice, right? I mean, you get out of practice interacting with people and, and it becomes really easy to forget what, how what you're saying is impacting them in a very real and meaningful way and how you may have hurt their feelings or whatever.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. Yeah. What about some other options for like the healthy processing of anger?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Well, so yeah, that's one of the things we didn't get to is you can think about – like what we've been talking about is how you handle your anger once you're feeling it. What we haven't talked about yet is how you can kind of create a life where you are more – where you're managing it better in advance, right? Meaning – Yeah, that's what I need. Yeah.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
So, you know, if you think about that model I described before, right, you've got your trigger, you've got your mood at the time of the trigger, and you've got your interpretation. Well, you can intervene in any of those places, right? So you can, like, we don't have control of every trigger we experience, but there are some we invite into our lives, right? Either on purpose or on accident.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Tiffany or whoever you're thinking about or anybody specific it could be.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Sure. I mean, even things like – the example I always use is like – so I used to love scary movies. When I was growing up, I loved them. At a certain point, I realized, you know what? These are having a pretty negative effect on me, right? I'm staying up too late afterwards. I'm getting scared, whatever. So I started watching them less often, right? We can do that with provocations. We can say –
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I'm not going to watch the news as often as I used to. I'm not going to watch sports as often as I used to because it's getting to me in ways that aren't good for me. We can even say, you know, I'm going to change my commute up so that I don't find myself in traffic as often as I once did. I don't know if that's possible in Nashville.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Right. But even if it's longer, it's like I'm still going to change it up. So I'm just not because of the traffic. That's a good point. Yeah. Because sometimes, though, we will recognize the things that agitate us and still continue to do them. Yep. What is that called?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. I don't know if that has a name, actually. But you know what I'm talking about? Yeah. No. I mean, when people continue to sort of walk into those situations that leave them feeling frustrated –
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. It's like you want the agitation. Like you know it's going to bother you, so then you know you're going to be able to be angry. Your anger almost becomes an addiction in a way.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And the worst thing that can happen there sometimes is sometimes we so anticipate that a situation is going to go poorly that we actually bring it out of that situation. Like we're going to Thanksgiving dinner, and we know our uncle is going to be racist or whatever. Yeah.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And, you know, so something I was just, it's interesting because I think people assume, you know, anger is, you know, that it was like hostile or uncomfortable or that we didn't love each other.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And so we go there and we end up sort of – first of all, we're hostile to them in advance in a way that it actually brings out their hostility back to us. And then also we sort of unintentionally like goat them into things.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. And we bring it out. Like we'll even pass the black beans to them and then lose it on them for no reason or something, you know? Right. Like and they didn't do any – it's just like we're just waiting in our head. Yeah. You know, or we'll ask for the brown rice and they'll look at it a certain way and they just, they can't handle it. Yeah.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
It's like, and then it's almost like, yeah, it's like a lot of times you set things up, you know how they're going to be. God, that's such an instance, man. What do you do in that instance? Because that's a huge one, I think. Yeah.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Well, I think it's about what I like to call proactive emotion management. So it's saying, okay, I'm anticipating that this situation is going to go badly. What are some things that I can do now to prevent it from going the way I think it could go? And so that might be, hey, let's give people the benefit of the doubt.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
That might be going into the situation and saying, let's not assume that they're going to do and say the worst thing. Let's go into that situation. Maybe I minimize my contact with them. Yeah, it's Thanksgiving, but I don't have to be in the same room with this person the entire night. And I can minimize how often I talk to them. Maybe it's you and your partner who you're at the event with.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
You have like a safe word, right? When you're getting frustrated that some signal that you can do to send them a message saying like, hey- Get me out of this.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I mean, there's there's all these things we can do. It's just we have to be thoughtful about it in advance. And I think a lot of times we're not thoughtful about it.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. Yeah. I'll struggle. I know sometimes like if I know like sometimes I can cut myself off and I'd be like, hey, go introduce yourself in the beginning instead of keeping an air where it's like. You have something in your head. Because I'm in recovery, and so I'll have a lot of things. Like I'll build a world in my head that's not really going on in the world around me.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yes, exactly. But it wasn't that. It was like, it was a really loving home. Like I get along great with my siblings. We've got really great relationships. all of us have chilled out quite a bit since then. But so it's just something I grew up with. It was a theme. Yeah.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And so sometimes some of those things I can cut off. Like, hey, go say, hey, how's things going? That way you've already created the first space of communication. It's been cool. Everything is good. Then if they do say something, sometimes if you're expecting somebody to say a certain thing, it doesn't really land on you the same way. Yeah.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
A lot of times for me it is I'll keep myself away from people if I know I'm agitated. So that's one of the things I think you said of just being able to prepare a little bit. But then it's like sometimes it's like that isolation builds on my own agitation because I'm always just kind of in my own world process and stuff.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. No, that's really interesting that like, you know, we often do sort of create this world that may or may not be realistic. And we assume, you know, people are going to be a certain way. They're going to do a certain thing or they're thinking like we do a lot of mind reading, you know, and we assume people think the way we think they think. Yeah, it's crazy, isn't it?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, and what you just said about going up and introducing yourself or saying hi or whatever, that's really interesting because what it does is it gives you the opportunity to realize that what you're thinking isn't accurate.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, it's funny you say that because one thing we have learned a lot in recovery is just like not believe in our brain.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
That our perception of things is off. Yep. You know?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I mean, that's really important. And it's like you want to trust yourself, but you also have to leave some room to say, you know what? Hey, my understanding of the situation could be wrong. Yeah. And when I meet people, I've got to let them know. I mean, yeah, I can go in and I can be cautious, right? That's one thing.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
But I shouldn't assume that my understanding of them is a thousand percent accurate.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. Yeah, and the more I isolate and stuff, the more that bad perception builds. That's what's fascinating to me. It's like it grows its own muscles.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, and that is, I think if there's a thing that I find sort of most dangerous or worrisome about modern day America or the world is the degree to which we are isolating ourselves, especially from people that we might disagree with. And the degree to which we're not having like real conversations with people that – where we can get an opportunity to learn how they think, right?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
We make assumptions about what other people are doing and saying. And then we react to those assumptions more than we react to what's actually happening.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, it is interesting how much we've become kind of palpable by like – I don't know if I just want to say mainstream media but by – bigger stories maybe that we didn't write ourselves, kind of.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And when I went to college, decided I was interested in studying it more and then went to grad school and started working with a professor who studied it. His name is Dr. Eric Dolan and he was researching anger and it just became something I was really passionate about and really interested in.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Well, and, you know, when you think about what, like, the social media algorithms do and how we end up seeing the content that we agree with more regularly, we interact with people who think like us more regularly, right? We just are seeing that...
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
We're connected – I put that sort of in quotes but connected to more people than ever before but not really because one, we're only seeing a very specific sliver of their lives and we're not having – we're not necessarily engaging with people who are different from us very regularly.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I mean, do you guys notice that we're any angrier now than we were in the past?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. I wish we could go back in time and have some sort of an anger thermometer that could measure anger over time because this is the question that I think everybody wants to know the answer to is, are we angrier now than we used to be? And in so many ways, it sure seems like we are because we see tons of examples of it. We see so much rage.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I think the parts that we don't have answers to is, one, is a lot of that rage just more visible now than it used to be? Are we seeing it more now because of social media? So we get more stuff captured on video than we ever did. And that might be what's happening, that those things were happening before, we just didn't know.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
It could also be that particular expression styles have become normalized, right? So yelling, screaming, those things, like hostility, those things are becoming more common. Yeah, and so maybe that anger was there, but those outward expressions are much more common now. I think there is some reason to think we're angrier now than we used to be.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I mean, I think like we're... The stuff we just were saying about social media is definitely bringing out, I think, more.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Well, the illusion, I think there used to be more of. I think like tradition we had, it felt like there was more of a sense of togetherness maybe. I wonder if those things... left people feeling more complete or safer in their country. And I do start to notice that there starts to feel a little bit of like,
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
what could happen in 15 years, as opposed to that was never a thought when I was a kid, it was always like, I feel like we're going to be okay here.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Um, so I wonder if some of that, like just subconsciously starts to boil inside of you.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I absolutely think so. I mean, I think, you know, one of the things we're dealing with, and I think a lot of this is post pandemic, but not just post pandemic is, you know, so anger dovetails pretty closely with anxiety. That these two emotions are pretty similar. They actually feel pretty similar physiologically. So there's a lot of overlap there.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
So yeah, it seems like it was kind of a family affair then kind of. And so obviously that's, maybe that's just a sign out of the gate that it's something for you to, to, to like reflect on and learn about, you know? So when people like, cause I get angry all the time, I'm pretty angry a lot, even though maybe sometimes I don't seem like it, but when people say anger, like, what do they mean?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And I think it's fair to say that Americans are, and probably worldwide, people are more anxious now about the future than they have been for a very long time. And that anxiety, it comes from a place of uncertainty about safety and financial security and all these things.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Even having jobs. I mean, as they say, every day you hear, AI is going to take your job. And the guy's like, I'm unemployed. And they're like, it'll take that job. Yeah. You're like, Jesus, I can't even be unemployed anymore.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
But I think there is a little bit of fear, even somebody who's just sitting on their couch watching, you know, eating Fritos and is watching, you know, TV shows all day, that even that job's going to be taken. They're going to be like, well, I'm going to lose this. Right, yeah.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I mean, I think that there is this, all of this uncertainty is leading to people, because I think in some ways part of what happens is it leads to some competitiveness. It leads to, like, hey, look, the pie is getting smaller that we all share, and I'm worried that I'm not going to have enough, right? And I'm not going to be able to make ends meet.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And all of that leads to frustration with your fellow humans, right?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Oh, yeah. Because your perspective is suddenly I've got to take care of myself instead of like we have to take care of each other.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And that gets a little creepy. Exactly. What do we do with pervasive anger at society and ideology situation out of control? Yeah.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I think that's another thing that happened during the pandemic is that I think people, I think a lot of people in the United States and probably globally really started to feel like they couldn't trust each other. And I think that happened in lots of ways, right?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
It was sort of a sense of, hey, people aren't going to, they're more interested in themselves than they are in taking care of each other, right? They won't you know, do X, Y, or Z. They won't wear masks. They won't open things up. They're not worried about my finances. They're not, you know, they're only worried about their own thing.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And I think that scared people and led to a lot of animosity amongst people.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
you see stories like the opioid epidemic, and you're like, the fact that the family didn't even go to jail or face any time, and the amount of pain that caused so many families, not to mention deaths. But I think things like that, it makes you start to question. So if you don't even think, you can always kind of question your government.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I think that that's safe and question society and what's going on. It's good to think. curiously, but I feel like that was probably another thing that happened is people were like, I don't know. We, every commercial is about drugs. Like, it's just like, who can I, where can I get valid information and who can I trust? And it probably became scary. You're like, I have to start with myself.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And I think that sort of uncertainty leads to feelings of frustration and leads to – and I think part of what happened too is that for some people, they felt like, well, the answers here are obvious. And so why don't other people see how obvious these answers are?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Like, what, like, I know it's so basic, but like, what is anger?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And, and, and I don't know that the answers were necessarily obvious, but, but I think that people felt like, why can't people just do whatever? And then we can get through this. Right. And when other people.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
You mean during COVID, you mean? Yeah. During COVID. And then, yeah. Yeah. I think people, and people had just also just real different views of it. It was like in California, things were very locked down. And then here things were more open, you know? And it was like, what's the best way to do this? It was hard to learn.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yep. Yeah. And so I think what you just said is really, really important. Like, you know, you said I'm angry a lot of the time, but people don't, realize it. And I think that's because something I think you realize that a lot of people don't is that anger is just the feeling. It's just the emotion. We can express that emotion, that emotion in a gajillion different ways.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Even, I mean, you know, I live in Green Bay and we've got, you know, there's the Green Bay Public Schools and there's other public school districts that are like connected, but they're all doing different things. And so there's a sense of, well, here we're doing this. five miles away, they're doing something different. Why? You know, what's going on?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And so then there's an anger and frustration amongst the people who live in those communities. And then people saying, well, I'm going to take my kids and send them to that school because they're doing this or I'm going to, you know, and so all of these things started to bubble up and lead to frustration.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, a lot of frustration. Yeah. And really, I know how to do it. People wanted to, yeah, the second you don't trust or believe that your society that's built kind of has a is looking out for you, or you can trust it, that it really, you've got to go back to yourself.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Well, I mean, imagine if we're not talking about society, we're just talking about a family, right? And you as like a kid in a family realize, wow, the other people in this family aren't necessarily going to do the things that are best for me. It becomes real hard to continue to feel good about that over time. People have to earn that trust back.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And I think we're right now in a phase where people don't feel like anyone's earning that trust back. They're just like, we still don't trust each other. They don't have my best interests in mind. They don't care about the same things as me. What am I going to do? How are we going to get through this? And I don't think anybody's got any answers to that.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. Yeah, I wonder if it's one of those things that just takes time or – I mean that's always the thing.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. I think you're right. I mean I think time is going to be part of it. I hope that there are things we can rally around.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I know they're trying to put out like... I mean, you would say that. You're a comedian. That's probably true. I would hope to say it, huh? They just put out... They just had a new show, Tires, on Netflix, which is really crazy. I've seen an ad for it. I haven't watched it yet. It's like different than a lot of stuff they put on there. It's just like... It seems like it's from like...
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
totally like the eighties or something, you know, it was just kind of like just humor without like judging that every person in the, in the show has to have certain, like, like, you're just letting people be, they could be characters. Like you could have a character, you're like, oh, that guy's hilarious, but I don't agree with him.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Whereas to be like, oh, that guy, I'm not even gonna see if he is hilarious because I don't agree with the character. And it's like, dude, it's okay. So like just things being more possible or just open their brains to like, okay, a character, could believe differently than I do. Because I think for a while it's been like, I don't even want my characters to have any different views than I do.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
That's kind of crazy. When you think about that. I'm drowning, but I only want a superhero to show up. if he feels exactly the same way I do.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. Well, it's tough. I mean, like, you know, I think one of the tricky things we've had to deal with is that there are, I mean, there are opinions that people can, like, sort of rally around. There are opinions that people can, like, disagree with in an understandable, reasonable way, right? Reasonable disagreements. But then so often, those disagreements... are about like real scary stuff.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And some people express that anger by yelling and screaming. Some people express that anger by suppressing it. Some people like me, they just do a relatively good job of controlling it, of using it to problem solve and so on. To answer your question, what is it, it's the emotional desire to lash out.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
It's not me disagreeing about like, hey, is Cats a good movie? I don't know why I picked Cats. I think it's because my son loved the movie Cats.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I haven't seen it, I don't think. Okay. I'm not going to recommend it. Okay. Yeah. That's my advice to you. If you walk away with one thing from this episode, it's that you probably shouldn't see Cats. Yeah. Fair. Yeah. So, yeah. I mean, so it's one thing to like disagree about that, right?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Totally different if we're talking about things that like really do have a, like have real consequences for people.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
You know, like there are some opinions that we can just agree to disagree. And then there's other stuff that is like, no, this is like, this is real personal.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We didn't used to be, we didn't used to care about it that much though.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
They did. I think it is interesting how much, like people used to never talk about politics that much. You would kind of say maybe who you were going to vote for and kind of, sometimes you give a couple lines about it, but you never, I feel like would be like, oh, screw you for voting for that. Like it would never, even the thought would never come into your head. I feel like.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, it does feel like it's taken center stage. And I wonder how much of that is, I mean, it's probably, a lot of it is exacerbated by social media. I suspect the 24-hour news cycle also led to that too, right?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
It ruined a lot of stuff. That created a lot of anger. Yeah, yep. Because we used to be able to take a day off, half the day off. Yep. But now they're like, oh, you need a little more anger. Yeah.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Well, and intentionally so. I mean, it's like – so there's plenty of research out there that says that content, news, or anything else that makes people angry or scared is far more likely to go viral. than other stuff. And so politicians know that. And just purely from a financial perspective, if you put an ad out that makes people mad, it's going to get more clicks.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
You double the value, essentially, of that ad by making people mad with it. So there are people who are benefiting financially from our rage. And that's not just true with politicians. That's true with, you know, Fox News, CNN, et cetera. They want to make people mad. Yeah.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. Instead of just having an article, they'll reframe the title so it has an enemy.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yep. That's pretty crazy. Dealing with anxiety and stress in the age of the 24-7 news cycle.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Let me see. Whether it's the coronavirus, political divisiveness, threats of terrorism, or mass shootings, you might not be immediately affected by these issues, but constant exposure to 24-hour news and social media, which is often heavily skewed towards the negative, can adversely influence your mental health and overall well-being.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And it's associated with having been wronged, having been treated unfairly, or having had your goals blocked. Like, I want to do something, and something's interfering with me trying to get that thing done, right? So it's why road rage is so common. It's because, by definition, you're on your way somewhere, stuff's getting in your way, and you start to get mad about it. Yeah.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
More than 70% of Americans believe the media blows things out of proportion, which may seem harmless, but it could lead to increased stress and anxiety. Wow. The tough part is if we're addicted to it, though. Right. That's the tough part is that if we're addicted to it.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. I mean, that's because, I mean, you know, people are drawn to this thing that ultimately causes them harm.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Right. You know? What is that? Has that always been? I mean, has it just been since the apple in the Garden of Eden, you know?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I mean, yeah. information is, I mean, people crave information, right? I mean, that's another emotion that I like to talk about sometimes is curiosity, right? And people do crave information. It makes them feel good about themselves, especially if they can share it with other people. It's like a form of social currency. And so knowing things is, you know, better than not knowing things.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And so people are drawn to media because And then when that media makes them mad, they're more likely actually to share it with other people. They're more likely because it gets the reaction they want, right? So if I came in here and told you just some sort of arbitrary fact, you'd be like, ah, that's great.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
But if I came in here and told you something that made you really mad, now I'm getting a reaction. I'd be like, what the heck? Yeah.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
What are we going to do about it? Exactly. Pretty crazy. And then we problem solve. So we've really just, we've kind of like death hacked ourself in a way. Like there's life hacks and then I feel like there's death hacks. And I feel like sometimes the algorithm does that, you know, or the possibility to always have it at your fingertips.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Because I'll find if I'd rather just chill or meditate or if I'd rather go find something to make me angry.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
sometimes would like to find something to make me angry.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, I get that. Yeah. Because I mean, it does, I think for some people that anger feels powerful, right? I mean, it's like, there's a sense, I mean, we talked earlier about it sometimes feeling helpless, but there's a piece of like the heart rate increase, the blood pressure increase, the muscle tension that leads to these feelings of excitement. Yeah. Yeah.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Is there a such thing as like a healthy anger? And then what is the difference between like a healthy anger and a rage?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. So what I would say is that when it comes to anger, I tend to think of all emotions as not having – they aren't positive or negative on their own. They're just information systems, right? And it's good to feel things. In fact, if I had a wish for people, it would be that they felt the whole sort of range of emotions, right?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
That that's what would be good for them, but in a nuanced way, meaning that they could evaluate whether or not this thing that they're feeling is good for them or bad for them in a particular context. So when I think about healthy versus unhealthy anger, a big piece of it is what is it doing for me or to me, right? So what kind of consequences am I experiencing?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
For some people, those consequences can be physical. They can have heart problems or muscle tension or chronic headaches or things like that. For some people, those consequences are like relationships. They get in a lot of verbal and physical fights, online fights. For some people, those consequences are property damage. They break stuff. Oh, yeah, steal stuff. Yep.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
So, I mean, sometimes, though, it's like other negative emotions. It's like I get mad, and then afterwards I feel guilty about something I said, and so I feel real sad later, or I get scared that my partner is going to leave me or I'm going to get in trouble. And so they have these other negative emotions. Talk about people like – That's me.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I'll get upset, and then I will – I'll apologize quickly usually, but when I get in a moment of being really upset, it's hard for me to manage myself.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. And then do you end up feeling sort of guilty about it?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, I feel remorseful. I'm usually good at being able to apologize pretty quickly. That's good. Being able to notice my space in it. But the fact that it happens at all is something that has been uncomfortable for me, I think.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
What are your triggers? When you say you get angry all the time, what are some of the things, if I can ask?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
No, that's all right. Yeah, I think that's, you know, it connects to, like, for a lot of people, their anger leads to things like substance abuse. It leads to overeating. It leads to even, I mean, you know, substance abuse defined broadly, like alcohol, nicotine included, right? People find ways of coping with their anger because they don't have better ways.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And so they end up turning to drugs or alcohol. Yeah. And that ends up having consequences. Yeah.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
No, I mean, I think that sort of covers it. But I think the big thing is there are lots and lots of consequences to unhealthy anger, right? There's also lots of good things we can do with it, right? There's lots of ways that we can turn our anger into those positive ways.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, no, thanks for asking, Ryan. For me, I've been noticing recently a lot of it is unrealistic expectations. So I have a lot of just generally unrealistic expectations that people should know how to do things the way I would like them to be done. Got it. So that out of the gate has been a big one for me.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And so back to when people think about, okay, what's the impact of this on me and on those people around me is to really sort of evaluate what the outcome is.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Right. So if you can take a moment to evaluate what the outcome is going to be like, what's going to happen right now, I'm upset. So if I act on it, then I'm going to have to apologize later. I'm going to be probably then I'm going to be bummed out at myself. So now right now I'm upset at somebody else and maybe even at myself. And then later I'm going to be up to apologize somebody and probably.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
then be a little bit disheartened in myself for my actions. So it's like, what do I really want? Or do I just want things to kind of be chill?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I love what you're saying right now, because to me, one of the best lessons people can learn about anger or any emotion is, when I'm feeling it, I need to stop for a second and think about what my goals are. What's the thing that I, where do I want this situation to end?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And sometimes that is like, you know, if I get mad on my way to work because somebody cut me off, right now I could drive them off the road and get in a fight with them, but does that get me to work on time, right? In the way I want, like my goal is to get to my destination safely, right? And so I should focus on that. And anything else that I try and do in that moment doesn't serve me.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And I mean, I use an exaggerated example, but even giving them the finger or honking at them, all those things just serve to distract me from my actual goal. And we can think about that in a gajillion different other places, right?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
If I'm, if I get, you know, if I scrolling through social media and I see a post that bugs me, yeah, I can, I can fight back or I can argue or whatever, or I can think about what, what do I, why am I here? Why am I in this space? What's, what is the point of arguing?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Maybe there's, maybe there's a good reason to, um, and, and I should, or maybe there's a good reason for me to just scroll on and not care.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, and I was just thinking when you said that, that social media definitely kind of – it almost deflates our anger in some ways because instead of a lot of times it used to be maybe if enough people got angry about something, they would go protest. They would make a difference. They would boycott. They would not use a product or they would stand up.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
But now it almost feels like you can comment into – almost a vacuum because of how quick things disappear. And you can just say, well, I commented or I said, you know, or I posted, right, I did something. But then it kind of like just satiates enough the human desire to do something where we don't end up doing things. And then we, as a group, get kind of further and further into this crevasse.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I do. I think you're absolutely right that a big part of what happens is there's this social media. I don't want to minimize social media activism because there are forms of it that are really powerful and really meaningful, but there are also forms of it that don't do much, right? But I think you use the word satiate, right?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Would you describe yourself as like kind of type A? Do you know what that means? Like type A personality? Like blood or whatever? No, no, no. Like it's a personality type of being competitive, really aggressive. A lot of successful people are type A. I'm type A, right? And even – Um, it's like, I'm really competitive. I'm really aggressive.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
They give you a sense of, like, I did something, and because I did something, I can now rest, right?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I had my impact. Right. I had my human impact. But it's not – sometimes it's – and it changes so much. Right. It changes so much whereas like every day there's a new option almost. Yep. So the thing you impacted is just – they've almost just replaced it with something new.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yep. And there's a new thing to be mad about too, right? You've got a new – I've got a new both outlet but also thing to focus on.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
A new topic. Moved right along. Yep. Here's an article that was in The Atlantic. The problem with social media protests – Um, before the internet changes speed at which the world moves, movements were slower growing. A year of organizing and directly advocating for change led to a 13th month long Montgomery bus boycott that began with Rosa Parks active resistance. Um, right.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
That's what it used to be like. Yeah. By contrast, mass protests such as Occupy Wall Street formed rapidly but then lacking that underlying resilience created over time, often lost focus, direction, and most important, their potential to affect change.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Interesting. So in some ways it feels like what they're saying is when you put a lot of work into something in advance, then you want to see it through in ways that social media protests don't have that, right? It's like, you know, I've been thinking about this for a week, so I don't need to keep thinking about it. I mean, I don't have as much sunk into this.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
No, and if I close the app, I'm not even an activist anymore. Right, right. Interesting. It's kind of interesting, huh? Yeah. I grew up in a home where there was a lot of anger. Right. It was probably our number one emotion that we had. Right. You know, it was just farm to table there. It was like you got it was 100 percent grass fed. All right. All right.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
You know, and it was it was just the only way that we communicated. How much of a responsibility is it of parents to like teach kids what their feelings are? Right.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, I love this. So real quick, when you say there was a lot of anger, was it mostly like outward express, like yelling, screaming?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, mostly yelling, screaming, throwing things, judgment. Okay. Those are like the main emotions, you know, and then humor. Okay, nice. So, but we, otherwise it was just always anger. you knew somebody was going to be angry.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I was number two. I have an older brother and two sisters.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yep, they're both younger, and everybody's alive still pretty much.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, I mean, some people are, you know. Got it. They're willing to risk it all, you know, but some of us are doing our best. But yeah, so that's where we had, and it was just, there was a lot of anger in there.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
You know, I think that my feeling is with kids in particular, I mean, we can think about this from the, well, I'll start with what I consider to be sort of the golden rule of emotion and parenting. And that is that kids tend to express emotions the way their caregivers did.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I'm really, um, type A. Let me see it right here. We have it. Our personality is defined by traits like ambition, drive, and competitiveness, which can lead to a high level of success. But type A personalities can also be impatient, hostile, and even have trouble relaxing. Um, yeah, I wouldn't go to hostile. I don't get there, but I can get like, yeah, very impatient, um,
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
and so they tend to and it's it's rooted in like age-old psychology that we it's called modeling right and so kids tend to model what their parents did that if mom or dad yell and scream kids tend to yell and scream as a way of of dealing with emotions and um
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Now, there's some caveats to that because simultaneously, the other side is that kids sometimes get rewarded or punished for emotional expressions of particular types, right? So a kid hits somebody and they get punished for it. Yeah. Now, oddly enough, sometimes they get punished for it by getting hit by the parent, right? Getting spanked or whatever.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Right. That's kind of wild when you think about it like that.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, right. And so, um, or they get in trouble for yelling by being yelled at. Um, you know, so like there, there's all sorts of mixed messages there.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Um, but to me, I mean, some of the healthiest things you can do with kids when you're, when you're trying to raise emotionally wise children is to talk about feelings often to give them the, the, give them the language to have that conversation, to help them identify what they're feeling.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I think that's a big problem for a lot of people, for a lot of kids and continues is they don't know the difference between anger and sadness. They don't know the difference between fear and anger.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Oh, yeah. I would just start vibing, you know. Every night you see that kid, he's just vibrating. You don't know what's going on. You got to show him a flash card or something, you know. Say that's joy, that's anger. But, yeah, because you don't know. Right.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And so helping kids to – I mean, one of the things I like to do with my kids and liked when they were young is to, like, unpack those emotional experiences with them. And not just their own, but when they see a kid, you know, melting down or a kid getting angry or sad or scared or whatever, to say, so what do you think is going on? Like, where did that come from?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
react some right just so at least that they can have their own head like okay this is what happens when this happens yeah this is what I look like when it happens this is where I can start to see in somebody else what's going on and then you'll recognize it in yourself and at least have some sort of you'll be the conductor in some way as much as you can yep maybe some of the outcomes if not some of the origins of the feelings
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, and then you can even talk through, you know, what are some options for him now, right? You know, this kid's just had this, just is feeling really hurt. What can he or she do to deal with those feelings of hurt? And, I mean, I think those are all, like, good, healthy ways.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
But I think it starts with wanting to make sure people are having those conversations, that people are really understanding it. Because part of what happens, too, is that people can realize that, you know, the— We like to believe, and I've even been saying, look, your feelings are one of the ways your brain tells you what's going on, what you're experiencing.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
That doesn't necessarily mean that they're rooted in logic or reality or that they're even really valid, right? We can be angry over a misunderstanding. We can be scared over something that's not really dangerous. And the feelings are real, right? And we shouldn't minimize that, but we should take some time to like unpack them and talk about like, what, what is, what's going on?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
have trouble relaxing dude I'll notice I will be urinating right and in the middle of urinating I will flush the toilet just because I don't want to I want to get it off my checklist yeah it's like it's already done you got a to-do list right yeah right so it's still weird because I'll then still urinate into the toilet but it's like I've already it's like yeah but so impatience yeah it's definitely a big one for me you got to learn to time that just right so that it's like just as you're finishing it's going down yeah
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I think that kind of stuff is important, at least because I think for myself a long time, I didn't know a lot of feelings I was even having. I didn't know, I only knew a couple, like, I remember like Yeah, like certain things would go on and I wouldn't really have any feelings about it. And I was like, man, I never really had a lot of feelings.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
So I think sometimes talking with your kids like, oh, this is a feeling. That's what that is. This is what's going on. Because otherwise you can just think you've been bonkers as a child, you know? Like if somebody doesn't tell you kind of what's happening with you.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Well, a lot of times kids aren't really allowed to have feelings, right? I mean, like that they're shamed for them, that the message is, hey, hold that in. Don't let people see that. And then, I mean, of course, that's going to continue into adulthood where they don't feel like they're allowed. They don't feel like it's safe to express that stuff.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I was thinking if you allow your kids, right? Like, like space to feel their feelings. Okay. Does that create in them, like, you know, recognize they're feeling something, allow them a little space to feel it. Right. Yeah.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Does that create like more of like an emotional resilience in them, which would just then like, then when they're angry again, it would just kind of become another emotion to them sort of like, um, is that many getting sense? Yeah. I mean, I think, well, What you really want- So then in the future, they could cope better. So if it happens to them next time, it'd be like, okay.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yep. Because what you really want is, I mean, you want a situation where your kids can, when they're feeling something, A, know what they're feeling, B-
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
have a sense for where it's coming from understand like its root causes be able to critically evaluate those root causes and then know what to do with it right and i mean and that's a that's a level of sophistication that i don't think frankly most people are capable of but it's because we haven't given them the space or the tools to do that over their lifetime and i think we're way better than at this as a society now than we were when you and i were kids
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
We're way better at trying to provide those tools to kids. But it comes with people being able to have those conversations to say, hey, let's talk about what you're feeling right now. Not in necessarily a judgment or punishy way like, hey, you just got real mad. You hit your brother. Let's let's have a conversation about that. Let's talk about better ways to handle that.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Let's make sure we make up for what we did. So it's not like it's consequence free. People oftentimes accuse me of being sort of wimpy and like, hey, you're you're letting your kids walk all over you. They got to get punished or whatever. It's not that it's consequence-free. It's like, no, we're going to deal with those feelings and try and figure out sort of the best way to handle it.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And yeah, that helps them develop that emotional resilience going forward.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. At least having some emotional understanding of yourself. Yep. But how do you then like put the cap on it where you're like, yeah, it's okay if my kid is, you know, like, um, we're like, how do we not turn into one of these societies where it's just like, oh, I don't feel like going to work today. So I'm not going to go. Yeah. You know, like that's nobody ever feels like going away.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
That's the first thing I should tell you when you ever go to school. Yeah. One day you're going to go to work and nobody's going to feel like it. That should be the first thing that they teach us.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
yeah no I mean it's true like the message also has to be that your emotions alone aren't necessarily reason not to do something yeah you know I mean that's the you know I have two kids both of them are very very awesome in different ways but the The one is he's a performer, he's a dancer, and he's in a lot of musicals and things like that.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And one of the things that I can say about him is people often talk about how brave he is, and he is. But I know him well enough to know that he gets real anxious about performing and those things. He's feeling that fear. It's not that he's not scared. It's that he knows how to do things anyways. And that's where you want people to get.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Like you want people to get to a point of right now, you know what, I'm feeling sad and I don't feel like being able to go, I don't feel like going to work, but I also need to do it. I understand what my responsibilities are and I can work through that. And I think there's something to be said. I mean, to me, that's a big part of what emotional resilience is.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
It's being able to feel things and then overcome those feelings at times.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Right. And I think if you give your kids space for that, it feels like you're going to – that that's an armor you can create in them as well. It's like, hey, you feel sad right now or you feel a little disappointed. This is how you can manage that right now. And look, five minutes later, wow, look, we're right back to where we were before. Everything's good.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
So then when they have those things happen in their own lives, when you're not around, they're going to have like some sort of, even if it's just brief little, Check-ins from a parent are huge.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, I'm sure that's how I started. But then after a while, it was like, well, why do I, you know? But I noticed that about myself. Like, that's a real thing that I noticed that for me was like, wow, I have a lot of impatience, you know?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Well, you can, I mean, that's the thing. I mean, and this isn't just about parenting. This is about being a supervisor. It's about being a human being. You can be sensitive and have expectations, right? You can be sensitive to your kid's emotional needs and have things you expect them to do. You can be sensitive to your employees and have expectations of them.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And frankly, you can be sensitive to yourself and you can be sort of patient and caring with yourself and still have expectations for what you want to accomplish.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
That's a tough one sometimes. Yeah. Giving yourself some grace.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, I'm really hard on myself. Yeah, me too, man. Yeah.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
God. Remember when we were talking about type A at the beginning, right? That's probably part of it, right? It's like you're competitive, you're success-driven, and that means you want to accomplish certain things, and that means being a certain way. Yeah.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, it's interesting because I don't know when I would ever give myself the benefit of the doubt very often, you know? I almost have to have someone say, hey, man, give yourself some grace here, you know? Like, feel some pride, you know? I think... And then sometimes I don't blame this. I'm not being a kid or whatever, but I think I never knew anything. I never knew any nobody.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Like I never knew what I was feeling or what was going on. So I think even things like that with your kid, like, Hey man, you can feel proud of yourself. Like, I know some of it sounds lame probably in some senses, but the cost of not doing it with your kids, I think can be kind of immense. Yep.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Because growing up not knowing, like having my own sense of what's okay for me leaves me at the whim of what other people think is okay for me, you know? And that can just get kind of harrowing. I'm not... You know, trying to, like, woe is me. That's not fully my story, but I could see it being really risky for folks. Yeah.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. The reason I ask is because what you said about like setting unrealistic expectations is, That's really common for people who are kind of type A, right? Who have these high, this competitive trait is that they think, hey, the people should, I want to accomplish a lot and me accomplishing a lot relies on other people to get their stuff done and taken care of.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
You know, for me, one of the things that's been really helpful is to surround myself with really good people who care about me and that there are people who – When I'm being hard on myself, sometimes it's nice to have a friend who can sort of step in and remind me like, hey, it's okay to not have things happen exactly as you want them.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
It's okay to take a break and just be proud of what you accomplished today. And it's nice to have people in your life who can support you that way.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, it feels like we always have to be making something better these days too. Like that and every, it'd be like, if you knew somebody and something was wrong with them, people would just be like, dang, something's wrong with him. And then 10 years later, people would be like, dang, how's Ernie? And then people would be like, something is wrong with him. Like it had escalated.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Like he bought an empty swimming pool and he was spending time in there. And so, but now it's like- Is that a real story? Is there a real person you know who bought an empty swimming pool? There was some men in our neighborhood that were kind of like, meet up or whatever in like this empty swimming pool at night and smoke weed or whatever.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Whenever I hear you drop an example like that, part of me is like, did that just come from his brain or is that like a real thing?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Oh no, that was a real thing. We grew up in a very shirtless area, if you will. It was very, a lot of people just, a lot of people whistling and no shirts. Just a lot of people doing their best.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
That was a good description. I like that. I can imagine what this area was like.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Shirtless people and no collars on these animals either. You know what I'm saying? Everybody was just risking it all. Can we still have childhood anger as adults? Like what happens to anger from our childhood that isn't processed? Or what happens to unprocessed anger?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, you know, I think two things can be true here, right? I think on the one hand, yeah, we can absolutely still have, you know, anger and resentment and stuff that happened when we were a kid that we continue to be mad about forever. I also think that it's sort of never too late to process some of that stuff, right?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I mean, you know, and that there's no reason why in your 40s or 50s you can't start to deal with
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
some of the stuff that you're you were mad about um still from childhood it might be harder and i also think we have to be honest about what the what the outcome is going to be right i mean i mean we have to recognize that some of those things i guess think about what dealing with it looks like because i can't it's a good point you brought it up earlier with the other topic is like follow think it um what outcome you want to have what was the other one
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, no, it's like what are your goals here? And I think the thing is like when you're – I'm 48 years old, right? When you're 48, you might not be able to fix the bad stuff that happened that you're still frustrated by. So that can't be the goal. But maybe it is to forgive. Maybe it's to better understand where – if it is a person who wronged you, where that person was coming from.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
things that we can try and process ways we can try and deal with maybe it's just to forgive ourselves for for you know not handling it in a different way man forgive ourselves for not being able to forgive people even yeah that sounds crazy right right because that sometimes it's like that's crazy i never thought about that sometimes it's not even that i'm upset anymore as much that i can't forgive the person it's like i start to get upset at myself because i can't
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And if they don't, if they let me down, that slows me down and I don't like it, right? And so- It's – this is something I actually deal with relatively often too. I get an idea in my head. That idea is reliant on other people doing their job in a particular way. And I think to myself they should be able to get that done by whatever day. And then they don't.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Forgive the person. So I'm not upset at the person anymore. Right. I'm just upset at me because I'm having trouble forgiving. Is that crazy?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. No, I mean, not crazy. That's really interesting and insightful, right? I'm still mad at this person. I feel like I shouldn't be, and I'm struggling. Now I'm mad at me because I can't forgive them.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, sometimes that – Yeah, I would just notice it can hop from one thing like that, and I don't even know exactly what I'm mad about.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
That's what – I was thinking about it earlier. So I was once a really bad student.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, I know. Really? That's surprising to people. Yeah, I really, really struggled in high school, and I actually failed out of my first university. My gosh. I know. It was – and a lot of it came – I mean it came from a lot of different places.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Like one of them was – so I was a diehard soccer player and soccer fan at the time and I had a hard time like not being more interested in that than in school.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yep. And same thing. I drank too much my first year in college too. That was relevant. Not in high school at all, but in college, that was a problem. But also I just hadn't developed a lot of like the study skills necessary to be successful.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And so I still like, years later, I still find myself sort of struggling with that, like mad at myself for not having done better, mad at myself for not having made more of of my college experience. Cause what happened is I took a, I took a break like six months off. I traveled a little bit. I was very, very fortunate that like I had a safety net, you know, it didn't mean I was like homeless.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Right. You could afford to go somewhere and travel.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yep. And I, and I had, I could live with my mom for a little while while I sort of figured things out in ways that a So having that, I went back to college and I kind of got it together right after taking a little break. But I'm mad at myself still for not having a different kind of college experience.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
you know? Wow. Yeah, man. That's funny. I'll get upset at myself with like, yeah, that I didn't have a blast in college sometimes. Like that's just this general term. It's in my head, man. I'm upset that I didn't have a blast in college.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
But if I went and looked through a calendar and shit, people would be like, dude, you had a great time. Right. It's like, sometimes I don't even remember things correctly. It's like my perspective of them isn't even clean and then are clear. And then I'll get upset and, At Unreal, and then I'll be like, fuck, man, I got to fucking – or I'll be like, dang, man, I got to enroll somewhere.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
You know, I could still be a mascot. I can't play, but I could still be a mascot. You know, you just start going, and then it's like I'm in this weird anger against myself, and maybe the perspective wasn't clear, you know, or – Yeah.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Well, a lot of times our emotions, our memories of emotional experiences aren't accurate. Dude, why? And so, I mean, part of it is that we hit the highlights or the lowlights, right? And so, like, if you think about a – actually, somebody did a study on this where they had people monitor their emotions over the course of a week-long vacation. And then when they came back, they took a survey.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
How did you enjoy the vacation? And what they found is that there was very little correlation between those two things. Because when people are at the end of a trip, when they're saying, how did you feel, they're reflecting on the high points or the low points. And they're just thinking, the overall experience was super rad. I was in Jamaica. It was great. I loved it.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
What they forget is how long it took to get their luggage. What they forget, like getting stuck in traffic for hours and hours and hours.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And in fairness to them, it's because they've got other stuff they're doing, right?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yep. And so they forget all that stuff, and they just focus on those other things. And I think the same thing could be true of college, right? It's like you think about sort of the high points or the low points. you don't think about the other elements, the things that happen, the day in and day out stuff.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Or we think about an overall theme of what it was like instead of those day in and day out experiences.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, I think it's called chunking or something. I'm not sure how our – why our brain, our memory does that. I've been reading this book by this guy, Dr. Sangerath, but it's about our memories and stuff. It's really – it's pretty interesting.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, totally. Yeah, it makes sense that they don't or that things don't go a certain way. It's just like in certain moments it's tough for me – it's tough for me to notice that. It's like, that's not what I'm thinking. But that for sure is a big trigger for me, I notice, is unrealistic expectations. So, and I'm sure I'm not the only person that deals with this type of thing.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Dude, sometimes when it comes to my anger and stuff, I will even like – like I think I remember being so angry sometimes as a kid. I almost – Like I enjoy my anger in a way because it's like I had such a relationship with it. I don't know if that sounds crazy or not. No, it doesn't. Like I don't enjoy it as in I want to like act it out or something or vandalize a shelter or whatever.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
But like that I want to – like if I – there's a part of me still that when I get angry, it connects to that kid part of me that was angry. And it's like this is – it's ours, you know? Right.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Well, I think all of us, like, you know, we've been talking about anger as an emotion, and it is, but it's also sometimes a personality trait. Oh, really? Yeah, I mean, it's a characteristic. Like, there are some people who are just angrier than others, or some people express their anger more outwardly or experience more consequences.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And because of that, you know, I think with any personality trait, sometimes as human beings, we cling to things that we sort of like as defining characteristics, right? And so, like, and we cling to those as things that, like, make us proud of ourselves or that we enjoy or whatever. So maybe a person says, well, hey, like, I'm kind, right? That's that's that's just who I am.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And I lean into that. Maybe someone leans into the idea that they're an angry person and that it's you know, that's kind of how they identify. I think that's true, especially because so in this I'm not advocating for this, but anger is how a lot of successful people get things done right now. Do you ever watch the show Entourage?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Okay. So Ari Gold, that, that character, you know, that's rooted in a real life person. Um, and he, who I think had, um, like used those kinds of, of, um. Tactics. Yeah. Tactics and used angry, aggressive approach to, to manipulate people and to, um, to get people to do what he, what he wanted. Right. And so like, that's someone who I think, um,
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
probably like appreciates that he identifies as an angry person. Right.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
You know, he appreciates that he identifies that way.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. I mean, I think it's like, this is just part of who I am and it's part of what makes me successful.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Oh, I see. But then is that just a cop out of somebody that doesn't want to deal with their anger though?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Probably. I mean, I think for a lot of people, that's them. I think they're scared to change. It's like, I mean, if this is the thing that I've identified as making me successful, well, then dealing with it might mean that I'm no longer going to be good at what I do.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
But if it's a trait, then so it can be a real thing that some people are just... are?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. I think there's still provocations. I just think that they're quick. It doesn't take as much, right? And so it doesn't take as much of a provocation to make someone mad. OK. And it still comes from a combination of upbringing, probably some genetics, that people are more likely to be angry much of the time. And so it still comes from that place.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
What are parenting strategies to assist kids with coping with anger? Yeah. Like not feeling anger very often or – yeah, like what are some of those do you feel like? Mm-hmm.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, so why do people get mad, like, or get angry in any given moment? Kind of like, is it... Is there a real science behind it?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, I mean, I think for what I would say is there's when it comes to kids, one of the probably the most important things to do is help them develop the tools that allow them to sort of find ways to decrease their anger in the moment. Right. And that's oftentimes for kids going to be deep breathing. It's going to be distraction is actually a really good one.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
So find something else you can do for a little while. Maybe it's we talked about drawing earlier. Maybe it's playing with Legos. Maybe it's petting your dog, whatever. Things like that that allow you to sort of de-escalate. The other side of it is helping kids identify where they have some control.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And this is harder with kids because I think they have a little less control in their day-to-day life. Where can kids have control in their surroundings, in their environment? How can they sort of do less of the things that might provoke anger? My other son is a diehard basketball fan, and he's a player and fan. And so we've been watching the NBA quite a bit. I'm from Minnesota originally.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yep. And this is the stuff I study. So why people get angry in a particular moment is usually a confluence of three things. So there's a trigger. There's the thing that happened. And I encourage people to be really specific about what that thing is. So driving down the street, yellow light in front of you. You think you can make it. Car in front of you stops, though. So now you've got to stop.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, so we're Timberwolves fans. And he handles – they won last night. That was great. But they've been – they're down a couple games.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. And he he handles it well. But, you know, it takes a toll on him. Like he gets sad. He's 12 years old. He gets sad when they when they lose. And so that's the kind of thing that like over time, you know, you want to think about what kind of impact that's having. You want to think about how much it's influencing you. You want to think about whether or not you as a parent, you mean?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. Like a kid doing something, if it's something that like what they're engaged, what they're absorbing, you mean?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, I mean, as a parent, you want them to be thinking about how much time they're spending and this thing that ends up taking an emotional toll on them.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think like anything, I mean, up to a point, you know, I think it's good to let them because that's how they're going to deal with the – I mean, I think the art of dealing with emotions is – I liken it to exercise. I saw a poster of yours working out the other day, right? You were on a run or something like that.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Oh, wow. I think it's great. Great for my mental health. Great for everything. But the thing about... I think it's similar, dealing with emotions is similar to exercise in that, you know, when you exercise, you push yourself to a place of discomfort, but never so uncomfortable that it's actually harmful, right? And I think you can do the same thing with emotions.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
You can push yourself into a zone where this emotion is uncomfortable with me, for me, but it's not so uncomfortable that I'm suffering, right? And so it's like... I want to feel some fear because I want to get used to dealing with that discomfort. And I want to sort of learn to cope with it. But I don't want to feel so much fear that I'm like on the floor shaking or anything like that.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And with kids, I want them to feel some anxiety and learn that they can just do the thing anyways. I want them to feel some fear, some anger, and learn that they can do the thing anyways and work through it. That's a good, healthy way to be.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, it's just interesting when you think about like, that it's the parent's responsibility to do all of that. Like how many little things that they learn because of how the parents let them absorb it.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I think one of the challenges is I imagine that our parents' age, it wasn't on their radar to be thinking about stuff like this. No. You know, that they just didn't know. And so they weren't necessarily attuned to like what what kids might need or benefit from from an emotional perspective.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, it was a different time. Another thing that really I'll get angry is if I expect people to it's kind of unrealistic expectations, but it's thinking people should know what I want, even if I haven't explained it.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, there's a name for this, and it's escaping me right now. But there is that sort of like, it's like the opposite of mind reading. It's like they should be able to read your mind, right? And know exactly. Yeah, and so it's like, hey, why don't they know exactly the way I want this thing done? And then why aren't they doing it that way?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, and for people who are ambitious and people who are success-driven, then that becomes a sticking point. It's part of that type A thing that I mentioned before. It becomes a sticking point, leads to that frustration. Why isn't it happening the way I want it to?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
What other personality types and what types of angers do they have? Do they have all of specific angers or not really? You just find that type A has more.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, I mean type A is – I mean originally part of how it was sort of identified was that it was – that people with type A, with that behavior pattern they called it at the time, they were – that they were angrier, more aggressive.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, because one of the things you mentioned was goals being blocked. And I guess if you have – if you're driven like that or have that extra like – drive, which can be a blessing and a curse sometimes, then you would have more goals just even generally floating around in your head.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
So that's the trigger. Then there is your mood at the time of that trigger. So are you stressed? Are you fatigued? Are you already angry about something? Are you anxious? Whatever. Are you too warm or too cold, physically uncomfortable, hungry? All those things make it more likely that you're going to respond with anger in that moment. And then there's how you interpret that behavior.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. And another strategy, not like the disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder, but sort of an obsessive compulsive personality type, is also associated with anger for similar reasons. It's like, I want things the way I want them. And because I want them this way, when other people don't live up to that expectation, it makes me mad, right? You know, I want my home a certain way.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Amarillo, by the way. Oxford, Mississippi, Tuscaloosa, Alabama, Tallahassee, Florida, and Rosemont, Illinois. You can get all your tickets at theovon.com slash T-O-U-R. You can get them Friday, November 8th at 10 a.m. local time with presale code RATKING. General on sale starts Monday, November 11th at 10 a.m. local time.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And if people don't set it up that way, if they don't, if they won't, um, do the things I want, I get angry or, um, yeah. And so it's like, uh, People who are really rule-driven or want things in a specific way are just more likely to get angry.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
That's why if we think about some of what we call the big five personality traits, one of them, people who are a little bit more open, a little bit more flexible, are less likely to experience anger. Gosh. Yeah.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Gosh, those people are good. I almost feel like I would drink their blood. Is that crazy to say that? Because I just – I wish I could have some more of that.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. No, I get it. I mean it's – yeah. I mean that's the thing we know is that I think there's a real drive right now in sort of modern sort of pop psychology to – be really accepting of all personality traits.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And I think, I mean, I get why we should be accepting and be supportive, but I think we should also acknowledge that there are some ways of being that might end up being a little healthier than other ways, right? And openness is a great quality, right? And conscientiousness is a great quality. Those things, agreeableness, right?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Those things are the kinds of things that help people be successful in a lot of ways and help them be likable and help them be happy.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. What about in relationships? You guys talk a lot about that. How do you deal with if you have a spouse that you feel like has some anger issues?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, that is really tough, especially because anger issues in families can look lots of different ways, right? Because there's the kind that is really scary and potentially bordering on abuse where the anger is driven at the particular person, right? It's the angry husband yelling at the angry wife or vice versa, right? And that's one way it can look.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
The other way is just a person who's just angry at the world doesn't necessarily take it out on the family. And that's actually the way my dad was. He was an angry guy. I can count on one hand the number of times he yelled at me. I wasn't the victim. It was usually... the waiter or the gas station attendant or some other driver, you know? And so those, but that still has consequences, right?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
It still scared me as a kid, right? I mean, yeah, it would have scared me if he were yelling at me, but it also scared me when he's yelling at a stranger. And, you know, those moments can really sort of take a toll I mean, I think relationships are obviously tricky. I think a lot of times with relationships, it's got to be about communication.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
It's got to be about a person being willing to do the work to try and change.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, and what kind of help do people need that have severe anger problems?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
That's the thing. I think there are lots of things that people can do on their own without a professional. But ultimately, when the situation is bad enough, people need to talk to a therapist.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And how do they recognize when it's bad enough, do you think? Sorry, I keep stacking questions on you.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
No, that's all right. Those are great questions. I mean, I think usually it should be driven by the consequences. And to me, hey. And for me, if a partner came to me and said, hey, your anger is making me uncomfortable, your anger is scaring me or it's making – like to me, that's enough for me to want to say, okay, I got to do something about it.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And if I can't on my own, well, then I'm going to go get some help.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Um, if it's not in a relationship, if it's, if it's just, you know, I'm, I'm, I find myself getting so angry, I'm like uncomfortable with it, or I don't like living with myself or it, I'm, you know, drinking too much or whatever as a way of coping with it. Well, then those are all ways that I can, those are all signs that I need to meet with someone if I can't fix it on my own.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. Yeah, because most of my anger usually just comes out about work stuff. Right. You know, in personal and regular life, I'm usually pretty chill.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And this is where those expectations come in. So do I interpret this person as – do I look at this and say, oh, this is going to ruin my day. Now I'm going to be late to work. I'm not going to get done what I need to get done. do you interpret it as, oh, that idiot, why did they slow down, right? And so do you label them in that sort of negative way? You totally could have made that, man.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
But yeah, I think when it comes to work and wanting to get things done, yeah, and wanting to be like efficient or yeah, a lot of just unrealistic expectations.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Well, it sounds like it's motivated, like that there's an undercurrent of stress there, right? There's an undercurrent of like, hey, if I don't meet these expectations, if I don't accomplish these things, something bad is going to happen, right? And so I'm anxious because I have these goals or I'm stressed because I have these goals and I get mad when things get in the way of them.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think sometimes the motivation, it's like, I think sometimes they come from an unrealistic space overall, because sometimes I think I just have unrealistic expectations of myself. Right. So that I'll never be able to achieve them. So I'll always be at a loss. Right. And so then it'll. coupled with some core belief I've always had that I'm not enough, right?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
To me, that's how I've been able to kind of see what some of that makeup is like. And I'm not trying to look at it as like, oh, woe is me. I'm just looking at it.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, no, that's great. And I would, I bet, I don't know this, but tell me, I bet sometimes those unreasonable expectations, the way that they matter, like boots on the ground in a particular week or day, is that you end up planning too much or trying to do too much, you know? And it's like,
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
You know, you think to yourself, well, hey, for me to achieve X, I've got to get A, B, and C done this week. And it's impossible to get A, B, and C done in a single week. So you set yourself up for failure that way.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Oh, yeah. A lot of times I won't give things a lot of breathing room. Right. You know, and that kind of is a bummer. I know sometimes you'll have a meeting with a friend and you're like, oh, I wish this meeting could be another 45 minutes. But, you know, I only set up a certain amount of time because I'm too focused on the work aspect of it and not focused on like the human aspect of it.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I do this all the time. I set goals for myself. I do this every semester. Intentionally, I say, these are the things I want to do this semester, this year, whatever. And then what that translates into is, well, that means that this month I've got to get X, Y, and Z done. I've got to do these things. And then that means I overplan for a particular week or day, and then I get frustrated with myself.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And then it connects back to that core belief that you're talking about of, Well, I'm not good enough, right?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Or I ruin everything. I can't do this. What the F? You F, you loser.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Too often the solution to that is that we, instead of giving ourself grace and being patient with ourselves and saying, hey, we set impossible goals for ourself, is we just say, well, we just need to work harder.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Right? And then we feel crappy when we don't achieve it.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Man, that's just a lot of my life is I just have to work harder. Yeah. Yeah, it was tough sometimes to have fun. I would tell my friends, I've said this before, but my friends are like, let's go do this thing. And I'm like, I can't go. I have to write a book. And that's where my mind always was kind of. It was like, you can't go do that. You have all this shit to do.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Don't you know you have all this shit to do? And I would never even look at exactly what the stuff was. It was just this gen – and I didn't realize that until recently. I'm like, well, what shit do I have to do? Like I never even – I just assumed I had to do all these things. It was like this to-do list that something was always being added on to.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And sometimes it was like the worst part of my brain was, was just going to add things on there no matter what, like unrealistic things, like look better. Like, all right. By 8 PM or whatever, you're like, this is, we can't do, you know, just like, or just, you know, you should be different. Like that's, but that would be like the kind of just like vague thing that would be on this.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Or do you interpret it as, hey, it's going to slow me down two minutes. I'll still get to work. Everything's going to be okay.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. Well, yeah. And then, and ultimately, you know, that to-do list never ends, right? I mean, you just keep adding to it because there's always more you can do. And so, I mean, that's the problem. I mean, I've been thinking about this a lot lately with work is that And part of what happens is that we fill up the cracks, like we fill up all the time with just more work.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And this is particularly true of ambitious people is that they say, well, I can just keep going. There's no end. There's no end to the amount of work that I can find to fill in. And if I want to be successful in the ways I want to be successful, then that's what I've got to do. And then that's, that hurts, right? We suffer in the long run.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And it makes me think when you're talking about that, do we have like just such on, like, how do we temper or. how do we perspectivize our goals for success? How do we look at, can you help me say what I'm trying to say?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I mean, how can we even frame it for ourselves so that we're not just have this blind thing. Yeah. Like you need to be successful. Right. So that it's actually specific and realistic and yeah. And then when is enough?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Right. That third one sounds like the healthiest one. Yep. But I'll even go. So now I'm like this bastard. Yep. Left his house just to fucking strain me here.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Right. Well, I mean, because in some way, I mean, you said before you like running, I don't know if you do, if you do races, like if you've ever, if you ever run, you know, whatever. Um, but I mean, it'd be like, I don't do races.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
But it's like, it's like if you, if every race you did, the finish line just kept moving. Because we move it on ourselves and we don't accept that we've accomplished a thing. I do. I mean, one of the things I do to sort of keep myself happy, even though I have this personality style too, where I'm just constantly adding to-dos, one of the ways I keep myself happy is by
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
by really marking those achievements. When I've finished a thing, I treat it like an accomplishment. I don't just add to it. I stop and I say, we did a thing. Let's be happy about that. Let's be excited. Now we can take a day before we move on to the next thing. So the next thing's still going to be there for me. And I admit, I think there's something about me that I need that next thing.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I don't know what I do. If you want to get to the root of what scares me most, it's retirement.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Really? Oh, yeah. Retirement in the sense of having too much time then or retirement in the sense of just not having – Like a specific goal maybe.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
It's that. I don't know what my brain would do. I don't know how it would operate without a thing to think about or like without work to think about. I don't know what it would – Yeah, we got to find out, don't we?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Like, yeah. Or I'll, yeah. Sometimes they're a part of my brain will even go there, you know?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. Yeah, dude. We got to just torch your calendar and get a little weird. I feel like you just got to – Get a little weird. I mean just to see what God wants, but it's like, yeah. Yeah. Oh, I can't imagine, dude, if somebody said you can't do that, like you can't work tomorrow. Yeah. I literally, something would crawl out of me and go like this.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yep. No, I've been, we got furlough days this year. Do you know what a furlough is? For disease or something? No, we had to take unpaid days, like forced to take unpaid days to save the university money. And we're literally not allowed.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
We're going to do that. Yeah. Just letting everybody know right now Dr. Ryan Martin is brought in.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Um, We have these thoughts. There are a couple of specific types of thoughts that we have when we're faced with that kind of provocation. And one of them is what you just described. It's this inflammatory labeling. So I label this guy as a bastard, as an asshole, as a loser, whatever. Another one is that demandingness that we talked about.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. Yeah. So we're literally not allowed to work, right? And so – and I – I mean I shouldn't say this because I'll get in trouble, but I've been working on those days. Yeah. I just I just don't use my computer because I'm not allowed to because I'm just like on my phone like doing doing stuff I'm on a different computer just still working so yeah
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I work sometimes to keep me away from having to deal with my own personal life, I think, sometimes. Okay. Do people do that?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, that's a real distraction for... I mean, that's part of what happens is... Yeah.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, because I think it feels manageable. You know, it just feels like I can control what's going to happen, you know?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I get that. But that's okay. That doesn't mean necessarily a bad thing.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
No, I don't think so either. I mean, I think... There are lots of things in people's lives that can be fulfilling. And yeah, personal relationships are absolutely one of those things. And people should, they're good for us in a gajillion different ways. But people can be fulfilled by their work, especially me and I.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
You know, especially when when they identify ways that their work is really meaningful and not just to them, but to the world around them. And if they can see that and then, yeah, it's really fulfilling to to to do that work. I think what what would make me sad is if I like hit a point where I thought. you know, hey, I've been doing all of this, and none of it really mattered, right? To you.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, or to people in the world, right? Like, it all sort of went away. I don't think that's true of the job I do. I don't think it's true of the job you do. I think it matters to people, and it matters to me. But it would be, you know, for someone whose job was to do whatever.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. Oh, I can see that happening. I could see, especially as we get more technologically advanced and we take away jobs, that people start to lose their purpose. You have to have some purpose. Right. Or you won't care about yourself or anything. Right. Everything has to have a purpose.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yep. And then, and then for people it's about, well, where do they find that? Right. Because maybe it's not work and it's okay if it's not work. Right. It could be, it could be your hobbies. It could be your family. It could be seeing the world. It could be a billion things.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. I do think though that sometimes with like, like, like I wish there was just something that was like, Hey, no more technology.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. You know, like we're, we're doing fine. We don't need like a robot sheriff. Yeah. and six Uber drivers hiding from him all, you know, like, like, and everything, you know, it's like, that's what it just, yeah, I don't know. I think about that sometimes, like why we wouldn't stop technology because it doesn't feel like it serves us sometimes at a certain point. Right.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, well, especially the way in which we have reacted to it. I mean, in so many ways, technology, I think, almost by definition, is supposed to make our lives better and supposed to make our lives easier. And I don't necessarily see that happening. It makes specific tasks easier, but then we fill up that space with other work. Have you ever tried to do some task that's really easy now?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
But have you ever thought about what it used to be like when we were young?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Oh, yeah, dude. Even writing a sentence the other day, it was like, where are we? Yeah. I was like, what happened, dude? Is this a war treaty or something? I was like, what are we even? And then I was watching. It was a pencil, right? And I was watching the leg come out. I was like, this is crazy. Yeah. This just happened. I cannot even believe it.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
It's like, you know, God, why can't they just do the job the way they're supposed to? Whatever. You know, what we call like making these dictatorial demands, like things need to be done the way I want them when I want them. There's what we call overgeneralizing. So it's, I don't know if you ever say like, God, this always happens to me.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. It's amazing. When I think about how, I think honestly it was like, it was getting my tickets for this flight. And I was like thinking about how there was a time when you ordered paper tickets and they came in the mail and you had to like carry them with you. And you were all excited.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. You got a ticket to a concert. Like there were certainly things that added this, like there was more of a, um, when there was more paper in the world, things that there, I don't know, things felt a little bit more connected, even when there was like a local newspaper and stuff and you got your name in it for something, or you got to see what was happening in your community.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
It was a big deal. Like they don't have a lot of those anymore. And so a lot of just like the value of being a community is, that's not just like a national community feels like it's dilapidating some.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I think that's true. I mean, I think that's the, there's definitely a degree to which people have sort of like locked themselves into their homes in ways that they're like, and they think they're interacting with people because they are online. But they're not necessarily coming out and talking to their neighbors regularly.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
No, they're not even talking to their spouses or kids. They're always in their room on their devices just ordering DoorDash or whatever. Yep. Like exotic pistachios or whatever. Like people are ordering just a lot of weird stuff. And then –
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
it just at christmas they all meet up in the living room everybody's like wow mom grew a mustache you know and it's just yeah it's just i don't know it's a different time um pistachios yeah they're good some of them are good are they um i'm trying to think any other things you found that you've gotten yourself that you get angry at yourself for dr martin
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I think some things that tend to jump out at me, a lot of them are things we've talked about. I get angry at myself when I don't achieve whatever I set my mind to, whatever I've decided. And that's true not just with work, but it's true with personal or fitness goals or things like that. Like I said, I map out pretty specific goals.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And then when I don't achieve those things, I tend to get disappointed with myself. I think I tend to – I've become much more relaxed over time, not necessarily at work, but much more relaxed about just my interactions with other people that I meet.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I've sort of embraced that philosophy of, hey, everybody's dealing with something and just – I was going through security yesterday at the airport and I – For whatever reason, I think you'll appreciate this. For whatever reason, I got flagged by their system. Yeah, get him. Guy's angry.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
You know, where you label things in that sort of super exaggerated way. There's catastrophizing, which is when you blow things out of proportion. You say, this is going to ruin my day, my week, my month, my year, right? This is the, my career is over now, right? This ruins everything. Christmas is done. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
You know the system where you go in and you have to stand there with your arms up and it smells you or something?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I don't know what it does. It's really, yeah. Somebody said it is. They take the smell off you and just email it to Satan or whatever. I love that. That scares me.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Well, I walked out and it lit up both my crotch and my ass on their little monitor. And the guy was like, sorry, man, we got to pat you down. And he took me aside and I think I got a trainee. And he was a little rough with me, man. Was he? Yeah. And it was a rough pat down.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Was he using more palms, you think? Palms are denser.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
No, he told me. He walked me through this. Here's what I think happened. I think because he was a trainee, he felt the need to do a real good job.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, because my supervisor's watching. So this is why I'm telling the story is because I'm going to grant this guy some grace and just say he's doing his best. He's got a new job. He's trying. He's trying really hard, maybe too hard. Yeah. But he did the thing where he put his hands like this and he patted me and he walked me through in advance. He told me what was going to happen.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Oh, yeah. That's a big one kind of. Yeah. It's like if you just ask me if something's on my legs, I'll tell you honestly.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. At one point he said, would you like me to take you someplace private? And I was like, no. I really don't. I want to be out here. Y'all met online? Craigslist. It was great. We met out in the woods. You wanted to.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Dude, there used to be a Strange Encounters on Craigslist, Casual Encounters.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, you could go on there and just meet strangers in the middle of nowhere if you wanted to.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I did it. Did you? I wish I wouldn't have probably. But there was definitely some different times you just didn't know, you know? Huh. Just, gosh.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I've only used Craigslist to sell stuff, and we didn't meet in the woods. We just met at my house.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
TBD, brother, you know? There's more to know, I'm sure. These are your books right here, Why We Get Mad. Those are for you.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Oh, thank you. You can give them away, but you've got to find someone named Theo to give them to because I signed them.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Oh, thank you, Dr. Martin. Now they're worthless. That's super cool. How to Deal with Angry People. Yeah, what do you tell people in this?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, so that book, it's broken into two sections. It's got one that really explains where anger comes from, why people get angry, some of those angry personality types we were talking about. And then it goes through 10 specific suggestions for how you can deal with angry people when you interact with them. Some of it's like, how do you deal with people that you run into online?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Some of it's how do you stay calm? Part of it's do you consider whether or not you really screwed up? Maybe the problem is that you blew it and you need to find ways to make amends. So it's things like that.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I mean, what I usually say about apologizing is that I don't think people should do it if they don't mean it. I mean, I think you should mean your apology. And I think a lot of times we, you know, so I think that one of the things we've done is by, especially with kids, a lot of times we force them to apologize. We say, like, you got to go say you're sorry.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. And then there's the last one is what we call misattributing causation. But it's where you just blame the wrong people for things. You know, you say or you decide they did it on purpose. Right. What you were saying before about like this guy is just doing this to fuck with me. Right. That's you're you're making assumptions about.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And, you know, I think that actually sends a message of, well, apologizing is what you do to get out of trouble. And that isn't necessarily why we should apologize. We should apologize if we're really sorry. I actually don't want people to apologize to me if they're not actually sorry. That is just a meaningless gesture. And it's weird, too.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
They're still calling you names, but they're apologizing? Right, right. Like, I'm sorry I called you a name, you little. Yes.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And then you're like, Jesus, God. So if it doesn't lead to changed behavior, then what's the point? So I think the flip side of that is when a person is sorry, they should apologize and they should do it well. They should do it effectively. They should tell people what they're sorry for and they should make amends in a way that suggests that it won't happen again.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And I think that's where a lot of people fall short is that it's always a I'm sorry if or I'm sorry but instead of just I'm sorry.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. What can I do to make it up to you? That sort of thing. Before you go, I wanted to – I wanted to ask you, why do people, why is road rage such a thing? Why is that? Yeah.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Driving is just the absolute perfect scenario for leading to anger. Everything about it. I mean, truly, if you were an evil genius and you wanted to create a situation that was going to make people mad, you would create one that looked like driving. Right. Got to get from here to here. Yep. I got goals, and there's people in the way of those goals.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Those people who are blocking them are anonymous to me, so I can think or say whatever I want, right? I can call them a total fucking idiot, and I don't know. They might be a genius, and I'll have no idea. There's all these unwritten rules of the road. I mean, there's written rules, but then there's also, like, what speed should you be going, right?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Right, so there's vagueness in there, too, which can—
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, so it's a thing I often ask my students is, what speed should you go on the interstate? Because nobody says the speed limit. It's always 5 over, 10 over, 15 over, right? And so if you and I are on the road and we have different, what's your answer to that?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
OK, so I'm pretty close to that. I'm like 9. I tend to set the cruise at 9 over. Um, so if, if you and I encounter each other on the road and you're behind me, well, you get mad because I'm not obeying your, you know, arbitrary rule. Right. Right. And I get mad because you're a hazard, right? You're trying, you're riding my bumper or whatever, because, Hey, I'm already going fast enough.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
No, I know you're not really making those assumptions, but you're making assumptions about why they did a thing. Right. Yeah. Yeah. and blowing it out. So all those things come together into like this recipe for why you get mad in a particular moment. And then even separate from that is what we do when we're mad, right? And so for me,
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
So these arbitrary rules set people off. All of that ends up leading. And then on top of that, it's kind of a nerve wracking situation. We don't actually think of it. We've been driving long enough that we forget how anxiety provoking it actually is. But it's dangerous, right? And so real harm can happen.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And so all of that tends to exacerbate that likelihood of getting angry when people slow us down or get in the way. And then add to it that the consequences are so significant of people running people off the road when they get mad. Oh, I see. Yeah, just things like that, that those consequences, we see those. I mean, they're very visible.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
We have seen more road rage-related shootings in the last two years than ever before, that people are getting aggressive.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Oh, yeah. If I'm aggressive, dude, and I have a gun. Yep. It's anybody's ballgame, dude.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Very unfortunate, very senseless. Visitors witnessed deadly Myrtle Beach road rage shooting. Oh, yeah, they call it Murder Beach now, I think. Every place is starting to be called, like, murder something. But, yeah, people are just shooting. They just... I had a friend in New Orleans that died in a road rage. Yeah, it's crazy. It's really crazy. But it is. It's that intense moment.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
But as a driver, if you can play it out in your head, like you were saying earlier, how do I want this to play out? The truth is you probably want that guy. To get a flat tire sometime the next day or whatever. That's fine. But right now, you want to get to where you're going.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And honestly, most of the time in those situations, I want to get as far from that person as possible. Like I don't want to interact with them. Yeah, you can't be following them.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
What is this? Somebody road raging? Oh, this guy punched open a back window. That's hard to do.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Oh, this seems like a... Oh, she just popped the trunk, boy. Dang, bro. She's carrying. Oh, she gots a hatchet. What? Oh, and he hit her. Those are children.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
But it is crazy that one guy, he acted like they were crazy for coming after him after he went and hit their window.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
But it's crazy. You would think you'd just leave. If somebody broke your window, that dude. Yeah. That guy or whatever.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
These incidents are everywhere now. I mean, you scroll through. I mean, that's the part of it. So I had a weird interaction right outside my kid's school one day where – I was parked waiting for pickup and this woman came and she parked her car in front of me and she was backing up and I got a little anxious that she didn't realize how close she was.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And so I honked, but it wasn't, I mean, to me, this is what a horn is for actually, right? It's like to alert someone like, hey, you might hit me. Not because I was mad, I wasn't, but wow, it made her mad. Like she was really mad that I'd honked at her. But what was interesting is that she got out of the car and she came over to talk to me And she immediately started recording.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
She took her phone out and started videoing the situation. I think thinking that we might have- Things might escalate. Things might escalate and wanting it captured if it did. I think that, which I do wonder sometimes, what is, do phones, and I don't have an answer to this, do phones de-escalate situations or do they escalate them?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Every now and then I'll just have a moment where I'll yell, not at someone, but just sort of at the heavens. I might sometimes pound my fist on the table or something like that when I'm really mad. A lot of times, though, I'll sort of simmer inside a little bit. I'll get frustrated. We do this thing in my office. We've done it for a long time where when we're feeling frustrated, we'll say,
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
You know, like if- Right, once the show is on, now do I have to perform? Right. I had a soccer coach come yell at me one day. Not just me, like yell at the fans at a game. And I've often, I mean, he was out of control. I've often wondered, what would have happened if I had just taken my phone out and started recording? Would he have been like, uh-oh, I should back away?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Right, or that would just exacerbate it. Yeah. Yeah, dude. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, because that's interesting. It's almost like art imitates life or whatever. It's like if we're watching something violent happen and then we get involved in something violent, the first thing to do then, a lot of times, wouldn't even be to help. It would be to record. Right. Right. Because that's what we just saw.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Gosh. I mean, I truly wonder, is that, I mean, there must be circumstances where that's the smart thing to do, where that is going to deescalate. Right. You know, where people are going to start to sort of say like, oh, I don't want to be, I don't want to be famous.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, I think if someone is probably urinating in your yard or something, then you definitely – I'm going to record you and I'm like, oh, I'm not going to be doing this on that camera, on the camera. I'm going to put my pants up or whatever. But I think if it's somebody who's just like – I don't know. That's a good question.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I think part of the question is how rational are they in that moment, right? You know, I mean if they're – Right, they might be doing it as a safety mechanism.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I'm going to make sure things don't get out of control here.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yep. But yeah, road rage commonly characterized by aggressive driving is a factor in more than 50% of all car crashes that end in fatality, according to AAA. In fact, in a separate years-long study, road rage episodes resulted in about 30 deaths and 1,800 injuries per year.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
You know, it's funny. One of the things that I oftentimes talk to people about, so I did a TED Talk on anger a few years back a while ago. And so the premise of that talk is that anger is good for you. There it is. That anger is good for you in all these different ways. One circumstance that I would not advocate anger is behind the wheel.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
It feels like there's no good outcome, that it just puts you in a dangerous spot and better to just back away and- Let it go. Yeah, let it go.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. What are good ways at anger? When is anger healthy?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of it is if you grant the premise that unfairness exists in the world, that there are injustices in the world, and I do grant that premise, then feeling anger is totally natural and healthy. And it's what we do with it that is most reasonable. Anger, like any emotion, it exists in us because of our evolutionary history.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
It exists in us because it encouraged our ancestors to fight back. And so it was a survival mechanism. And so from that perspective, it's still valuable. So the same way I get thirsty and I get a sip of water, anger motivates me to confront injustice.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Right. And you're going to need it too. I mean, if they didn't, if we got rid of anger completely would be, then what if there were tyranny or something, we'd never be able to stand up to it, you know, or what if there were, yeah.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I mean, anger is behind all these social movements in, in really meaningful ways. Right. And now we were talking earlier about protests and social media that, um, but anger is what's motivating most of those in oftentimes in, in, in healthy ways. Um, yeah.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. Um, Dr. Ryan Martin, I'm trying to think of anything else we can cover. I think we got a pretty good.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Okay, let's start with an unproductive response, meaning let's just take a minute to vent for a second about how we hate this, right? We'll take like two minutes and then we'll stop and we'll say, okay, now let's problem solve. What do we need to do, right? How do we work through this?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. We went from flushing the toilet before you're done peeing all the way to getting patted down by a TSA agent, by an overly aggressive TSA agent. I think we covered a lot.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
That's a lot of ground. Dr. Ryan Martin, thank you so much, man, for coming in.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. Thank you, man. This has been an absolute treat. It's been great talking to you and it's been fun being here.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. Appreciate it, man. It's been interesting to just learn more, a little bit about anger. And the thing that has helped me at times is that moment of thinking, how do I want this to play out? Yep. That's good.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
If I can let that get me at that moment, when you're about to open the card or whatever, you know, you're about to go in the other room and say something, how do I want this evening to play out this afternoon, this next hour, this next week?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yep. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think that like that has to be thinking about that outcome you want. What is your desired outcome in any situation is so important. And then because the next question is, well, then how do I get there? What is the thing I have to do to accomplish this?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And, you know, now the second piece is having the presence of mind to de-escalate yourself in order to have that thought and be intentional about that, right?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, if you can get to that thought, you're probably going to be okay. Right. I've noticed that for myself. If I can get to that thought, I'm probably going to be okay because most of the time I'm going to choose –
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Let's find a way to get this. Let's find a way to just get through this.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yep. And I think for people who have real genuine anger problems, they're not able to get to that thought. You know, that they're so escalated in the moment. It's this righteous anger that is driving everything they're thinking about, and they're not able to get to the place of, okay, what's the rational, healthy thing to do right now?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. Because I think preserving your peace is really key. I mean, there's just everything is loud everywhere. There's just everything is like signaling or letting you know, notification, just never ending now. I think just holding on to your peace. And if you can remember that, how do I want this to end? How do I really want this to end? It's really good for any situation.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Right, let some of the pressure off. Yep. Yeah, exactly. When it comes to anger, are there different types? So like we kind of have looked at like a situation that – and triggers of – And then you end up angry. Right. Are there different types of anger? Like, are there?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Honestly, it's good for the small day-to-day interactions. It's good for big life goals.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
business it's like if you're calling to make a deal with somebody maybe they don't want the deal or maybe it's not but do you want to do deals with them for the next 10 years what do you how do you want things to look long term right you know do you need to be you know does the price need to be that can it be a different price over five years and and you still have a great business relationship you know um yeah
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. Do you have to win this argument? Do you have to defeat that Pontiac Firebird that just flipped you off, dude? Right. You probably don't. Probably not.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
It probably doesn't matter in the long run that you win that.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
But how do you get through it today? How do you... Reach out to your – if you're angry, how do you reach out to your spouse and just say something nice? Just because you know it's going to make it better when you guys get home or when you see each other again so that they're not going to have a tough day. Right.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
How do you – even if you're mad at your girlfriend or something, say, look, everything will be okay. Yeah.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yep. Thinking through to those long-term goals, how do you want this situation to be? And then charting the path to get there. I think, honestly, for a lot of people, the challenge is that they aren't able necessarily or haven't spent enough time thinking about that destination. And being really intentional about that. this is the outcome I want. This is the outcome I want today.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
This is the outcome I want next week. And so this is the outcome I want for this drive to work, right, is to get there safely. And once you start having that thought, then it helps you stop diverging into stupid directions.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. Yeah, sometimes I don't have that, and so then I'm at the whims of whatever. Right. You know, sometimes I'm just a little bit aimless, which is okay, but – But it can be risky. Dr. Ryan Martin, thank you so much for coming in, man. You bet. Thanks so much for having me. This has been a treat from start to finish.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah, been dealing with some anger, and so just excited to get to talk about it and just think about it. So thank you for sharing your knowledge. Yeah, you bet. Thanks, man.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. I mean, I think anger can come from a lot of different places. And people can tend to express it in lots of different ways. I tend to think of anger as existing on, like, a continuum. Meaning, you know, on one end, you've got mild frustration. Like, hey, I'm leaving the house. Can't find my keys. Right? It's irritating. I misplaced something. It's a bummer.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
We also have a few tickets remaining for Champaign, Illinois on November 15th. And happy early holidays to everyone. Remember, don't buy through a secondary website. Go through our website so you're not getting those heightened ticket prices. And thank you so much for your support. And we do have new merch items back by popular demand. The Hitter Hunting Club Collection.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Right, stuff like that. And then there's more intense frustration that comes from like, hey, now I'm really starting to run late. This dude got in my way on the road or whatever, right? More intense all the way up to like extreme anger of I –
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
you know, when you see a politician do something that you just hate or when, you know, your spouse treats you badly or when your parents treat you badly or whatever, a friend takes advantage of you, like the real extreme, cruel, terrible things, right? And it exists. And so it's everything from like mild frustration to just being livid with rage, that whole spectrum.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
So there's just kind of a spectrum of anger. It's like there's small amounts, there's larger, there's things that are really intense. Yeah. I guess in my next thought, like – because anger gives me a sense – sometimes it's like an illusionary sense that I have some control over what's going on. Yeah. But at the same time, I feel out of control. Right.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Because anger sometimes makes me want to take an action. So that makes me feel like I'm in control. Yeah. But then like I'll get so like just sometimes just blinded by being angry that it's like I know I'm out of control, you know?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
Yeah. This is one of the things that, so I don't know if you've ever had this experience, but have you ever been so angry that you started to cry? Is that something you can think of?
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
I've been sad as so, but that I've cried, but not anger that I've cried.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
So there are some people, and I discovered this on social media. Like there are a lot of people who sometimes when they get really angry, they'll, they'll start to cry. Like that's their sort of go-to expression. And the interesting thing is the people I've talked to hate this about themselves. They, they, they, they will tell me I I can't stand it. It drives me crazy because I'm really mad.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And instead of like, I just start to cry. And I think a big part of what's going on there is a pretty intense feeling of helplessness. It's like, not only am I being treated badly, not only am I being treated unfairly and having my goals blocked, but there's nothing I can do about it. I'm just stuck. And that hurts, you know, and it doesn't feel good. It feels scary.
This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
E543 Dr. Ryan Martin
And so I think for a lot of people, that hopelessness and helplessness lands them in a place where they just start to tear up. Like it sort of dovetails with sadness in this very real way. Whereas for people like me, when I'm feeling particularly sort of helpless or hopeless emotionally, and angry, I tend to focus on, okay, so where are the places where I can make a difference?