Dr. Shoshana Ungerleider

Today we're kicking off a special mini-series on vaccines.

And in a time when misinformation spreads quicker than facts, understanding vaccines has never been more critical to our personal and public health.

This mini-series explores how trust in science is built and how it's broken through real stories, expert insights, and what we can all do to stay informed.

Wow.

Thank you for connecting the dots between this very, I would say, American idea of thinking about the individual and personal choice to thinking broadly about community health and how we tend to frame public health.

And I want to come back to something that you alluded to, and that is for many parents,

Making health care decisions is deeply tied to love, to identity, and a desire to do what's best for their children.

How does that intention sometimes lead people down a path of mistrust?

As our public health systems face mounting challenges, this series offers the clarity and context everyone needs to make confident, evidence-based choices.

In today's episode, you'll hear from someone who did just that.

Ethan Lindenberger didn't set out to start a movement.

He just asked a question.

And in doing so, he stepped into one of the most polarizing public health conversations of our time.

Yeah.

And further, we aren't necessarily taught how to communicate effectively with patients in our medical training, I would say.

And so building on that, you've said that how we talk to people matters just as much as what we say.

So what common mistakes from your perspective do healthcare professionals like me or even well-meaning friends make when trying to change someone's mind about this?

His story is a reminder that you don't have to be an expert to make an impact.

You just have to be willing to stand up for what's real, even when it's uncomfortable.

Because protecting our health and the health of others often starts with one brave decision to speak out.

Then stick around after the talk for an interview with Dr. Jennifer Reich, an expert on why some parents choose to not vaccinate their children.

But before we dive in, a quick break to hear from our sponsors.

Yeah.

And so in terms of how to have those kinds of conversations, we often talk about vaccines in the context of a scientific framework and discuss the data.

But many people respond more to stories.

Why is that?

And how can those of us who care about public health use storytelling more effectively?

Yeah.

I want to zoom out a little bit, Jennifer, and I know that you've studied this issue across political and cultural lines.

What surprised you most about how different communities form their beliefs about vaccines and really medical care in general?

Yeah.

I mean, we're living in a time, certainly, when trust in institutions is incredibly fragile.

So what do you think needs to happen to rebuild trust in public health and science more broadly so we can avoid these vaccine-preventable deaths, for example?

For people who want to help combat health misinformation, whether you're an expert or not, what can we do?

And where does somebody begin with this?

Yeah, I think that's so helpful, that framing.

My last question for you is one of the things I often think about is how do we stay hopeful when the stakes feel so high, especially in this moment in time?

What is giving you hope?

Well, I am so grateful to you for your work and for this conversation.

You've given me some more hope, at least today.

So thank you so much.

Thanks again for inviting me.

And that's it for today's episode.

Thanks so much for listening.

TED Health is a podcast from TED.

And I'd love to hear your thoughts about this episode.

Send me a message on Instagram at ShoshanaMD.

This episode was produced by me, Shoshana Unkerleider, and Jess Shane.

Edited by Alejandra Salazar and fact-checked by Vanessa Garcia-Woodworth.

Special thanks to Maria Lajas, Farrah DeGrange, Daniela Balarezo, Constanza Gallardo, Tansika Sangmarniwang, and Roxanne Highlash.

That was Ethan Lindenberger at TEDx Mid-Atlantic in 2019.

Now I want to welcome Dr. Jennifer Reich to take us deeper into this topic.

Dr. Reich is a professor of sociology at the University of Colorado Denver and a researcher on vaccine decision-making.

Her work explores how parents make choices about childhood vaccination and how those decisions are shaped by social, cultural, and political forces.

She's the author of Calling the Shots, Why Parents Reject Vaccines, and has spent years studying how trust, identity, and misinformation influence public health.

And today we'll be talking about what drives vaccine hesitancy, how misinformation takes root, and more importantly, what we can do about it.

Dr. Reich, welcome.

Thanks so much for having me.

So Jennifer, you've spent years listening to parents who are skeptical of vaccines and I want to start there.

What have you learned by really listening to these stories and what might we overlook when it comes to these parents' concerns?

This is TED Health, a podcast from TED, and I'm your host, Dr. Shoshana Ungerleider.

I think it can be easy to dismiss people who believe misinformation as anti-science or irresponsible.

But your work shows us that there's so much more beneath the surface.

And you've alluded to this a bit.

What are some of the emotional or social reasons people might reject vaccines?

Speaking up for what's true, especially when it's personal, isn't easy.

But in a world where misinformation about health spreads fast and loud, choosing to use your voice can be a powerful act of courage.