Dr. Shoshana Ungerleider

And so in terms of how to have those kinds of conversations, we often talk about vaccines in the context of a scientific framework and discuss the data.

But many people respond more to stories.

Why is that?

And how can those of us who care about public health use storytelling more effectively?

Yeah.

I want to zoom out a little bit, Jennifer, and I know that you've studied this issue across political and cultural lines.

What surprised you most about how different communities form their beliefs about vaccines and really medical care in general?

Yeah.

I mean, we're living in a time, certainly, when trust in institutions is incredibly fragile.

So what do you think needs to happen to rebuild trust in public health and science more broadly so we can avoid these vaccine-preventable deaths, for example?

For people who want to help combat health misinformation, whether you're an expert or not, what can we do?

And where does somebody begin with this?

Yeah, I think that's so helpful, that framing.

My last question for you is one of the things I often think about is how do we stay hopeful when the stakes feel so high, especially in this moment in time?

What is giving you hope?

Well, I am so grateful to you for your work and for this conversation.

You've given me some more hope, at least today.

So thank you so much.

Thanks again for inviting me.

And that's it for today's episode.