Dr. Stephen Meyer

They were expressing that God was holding the universe together by what we call the laws of nature.

Right.

And there's a whole big literature on that, and there's a theistic argument from natural laws.

The fine-tuning argument is, in a way, a kind of wrinkle on that because in addition to just the brute fact of regularities, the regularities have very particular strengths.

Gravitation could be stronger, could be weaker.

There's no underlying logical or physical reason why it has exactly the strength it does.

But if it were just a little different, then you wouldn't get life or even basic chemistry.

So that's back to the fine tuning argument.

So it's not only the fact of regularities, which some philosophers think point to have

have theistic implications, they're better explained by theism, but it's also some of the features of the regularities that also seem to point to God in the sense that they reveal fine-tuning.

But then when we get to biology, I love your example.

We have a little video right now about the iPhone and the complexity of the iPhone.

There are features of design systems that we recognize from our own designs that happen to be present in living systems.

And there are two things that actually three things that jump out at me.

One is the, the, the, the, the digital code that's in the DNA molecule.

Okay.

And we, you, we run a, we run an iPhone off of code, right?

So we know where code comes from.

Bill Gates has said that DNA is like a software program, but more complex than any we've ever created.

Richard Dawkins, the staunch, uh, formerly Oxford, uh, scientific atheist says that the, the, uh,