Dr. Stephen Meyer

So, yes, you can remodel the universe as being, you can model it as being infinite, but the cost of doing so, there's a huge cost to the credibility of the models, and even

if you even if you posit these models you don't get around theism because you have this unexplained fine-tuning to deal with and so this was a major focal point in the debate that that he and i just had and it's very very current he wrote me a nice inscription in his book afterwards that it was the toughest debate he'd ever had and i have to give a hat to him he was a very good debater too but i i think the framing that we're we're we're offering here

really gives you a roadmap to all this proliferation.

It's not a healthy thing in the history of science to have a proliferation of models.

If the community can't settle on something, it's usually because you're trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

And if you just look at the observational astronomy, you've got an outward expanding universe.

The evidence suggests outward expansion, the forward direction of time,

and a collapse or contraction in the reverse direction of time to a stopping point, past which you can't not go any further.

There's nothing in what we're observing that suggests a static universe from infinite past.

What we see is exactly what you'd expect if the universe is expanding outward from a beginning point.

Yes, you can cleverly model your way out of that, but only at a cost.

This is weird.

Yes, it's really weird and it doesn't act according to the natural –

If it gets small enough, matter can be both spatially extended and spatially discrete at the same time.

What kind of a thing is that?

Well, maybe it's not actually a thing.

Maybe it's more of a – well, they call it a wave function.

It's more conceptual than it is material.

Yeah, so I do explain that nicely in – and I worked hard at this.

I got help, you know, retooled with some – I did a physics major, but some of this stuff you have to go brush up on before you write on it to make sure you get it right.