Dr. Trevor Bradley

then that will result in a, in turn, a reduction in victim numbers and a reduction in harm generally.

So I don't see the problem.

Again, you know, obviously depends on the designs of the program and the types of oversight mechanisms that are put in place and the very strict and very closely monitored effects of these programs.

And so we don't just hand over a bag of cash.

You know, this money is dependent on

milestones being met and progress being made and using the empirical evidence to inform those decisions.

No, well, I mean, if you look at the programme, that money didn't go anywhere near the gangs.

That went on treatment programmes and initiatives.

And as we know, these are really expensive programs to run because it's such an embedded and complex, difficult program to deal with.

So, no, it's not, you know, that politicians can make that claim, but it's just not accurate.

Meanwhile, gang membership is increasing, drug consumption, problematic drug consumption is increasing.

So, you know, we need to be doing something about it, especially, again, if the overall goal is to make communities safer and lead to an overall reduction in crime.