Menu
Sign In Search Podcasts Charts People & Topics Add Podcast API Pricing

Dwarkesh

👤 Person
1735 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

Dwarkesh Podcast
Ilya Sutskever – We're moving from the age of scaling to the age of research

And it thought a bunch.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Ilya Sutskever – We're moving from the age of scaling to the age of research

And then it realized that the correct way to model the information you gain from a single yes or no outcome in RL is as the entropy of a random binary variable.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Ilya Sutskever – We're moving from the age of scaling to the age of research

It made a graph which showed how the bits you gain for a sample in RL versus supervised learning scale as the pass rate increases.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Ilya Sutskever – We're moving from the age of scaling to the age of research

And as soon as I saw the graph that Gemini 3 made, immediately a ton of things started making sense to me.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Ilya Sutskever – We're moving from the age of scaling to the age of research

Then I wanted to see if there was any empirical basis to this theory.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Ilya Sutskever – We're moving from the age of scaling to the age of research

So I asked Gemini to code an experiment to show whether the improvement in loss scales in this way with pass rate.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Ilya Sutskever – We're moving from the age of scaling to the age of research

I just took the code that Gemini outputted, I copy pasted it into a Google Colab notebook, and I was able to run this toy ML experiment and visualize its results without a single bug.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Ilya Sutskever – We're moving from the age of scaling to the age of research

It's interesting because the results look similar but not identical to what we should have expected.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Ilya Sutskever – We're moving from the age of scaling to the age of research

And so I downloaded this chart and I put it into Gemini and asked it, what is going on here?

Dwarkesh Podcast
Ilya Sutskever – We're moving from the age of scaling to the age of research

And it came up with a hypothesis that I think is actually correct, which is that we're capping how much supervised learning can improve in the beginning by having a fixed learning rate.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Ilya Sutskever – We're moving from the age of scaling to the age of research

And in fact, we should decrease the learning rate over time.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Ilya Sutskever – We're moving from the age of scaling to the age of research

It actually gives us an intuitive understanding for why in practice we have learning rate schedulers that decrease the learning rate over time.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Ilya Sutskever – We're moving from the age of scaling to the age of research

I did this entire flow from coming up with this vague initial question to building a theoretical understanding to running some toy ML experiments, all with Gemini 3.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Ilya Sutskever – We're moving from the age of scaling to the age of research

This feels like the first model where it can actually come up with new connections that I wouldn't have anticipated.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Ilya Sutskever – We're moving from the age of scaling to the age of research

It's actually now become the default place I go to when I want to brainstorm new ways to think about a problem.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Ilya Sutskever – We're moving from the age of scaling to the age of research

If you want to read more about RL scaling, you can check out the blog post that I wrote with a little help from Gemini 3.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Ilya Sutskever – We're moving from the age of scaling to the age of research

And if you want to check out Gemini 3 yourself, go to gemini.google.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Ilya Sutskever – We're moving from the age of scaling to the age of research

I am curious, if you say we are back in an era of research, you were there from 2012 to 2020.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Ilya Sutskever – We're moving from the age of scaling to the age of research

And do you have... Yeah, what is now the vibe going to be if we go back to the era of research?

Dwarkesh Podcast
Ilya Sutskever – We're moving from the age of scaling to the age of research

For example...