Ed O'Brien

And the middle is where it gets really challenging.

I feel like I haven't got enough experience of this transformation, but my experience of transformation is it feels impossible without the deeply challenging aspect that is at the heart of it.

Because, you know, if you take the human body, if you take mental health,

You know, my belief is that there's an innate, or not my belief, but I resonate with those who say, or this idea that there's an innate human, the body has an innate human intelligence.

It wants to heal.

You know, and that's what depressions and that's what breakdowns and that's what illnesses can be or early onsets.

The body is saying there's something not right here.

And are you going to listen to this?

And, you know, the, the coping mechanisms and the things from childhood that we all, that become part of our character and, you know, we think they're us.

there gets to a point your body goes, your body knows it's no longer serving you.

Your mind goes, oh, I'm just, this is me.

I'm just carrying on.

And essentially, I think that's what a breakdown is.

Your body's saying enough.

Yeah.

Well, I think fundamentally, human beings don't like being out of their comfort zone.

They get into a rhythm and that becomes, that's how they make sense of everything.

And yeah, the only way to break that, and then you're right, I always say this, or my personal experience is the universe gives you, you have everything around you in order to evolve, and it's whether you listen or whether you're awake to it.

And you're right, exactly.

If I look back on my situation,