Edd Straw

So it's so hard to define what the relationship is between the world, whether that's the wider world or your competitors, and an entity that's so big.

And that's, I think, why it's so important that Red Bull corporately lets that team continue to be what it is, because all Formula One teams ideally need to be some version of that.

So I think that's the challenge.

And like I say, it's going to take time for us to really understand that.

We're going to be back in the next part of the episode talking about Max Verstappen.

Let's move on to Max Verstappen now.

Matt, just how central to Red Bull Racing do you think Max Verstappen is?

I tend to think of him as almost a force multiplier in that he extracts everything from the car.

And he also helps you to raise the ceiling of the car in terms of the precision of his technical feedback and that kind of thing.

I wouldn't say he's the most technical driver, but he might be the best in terms of giving the exact feedback needed that he wants.

Because he's very good in terms of what the car's doing, isn't he?

And I think, John, whenever you have a driver like that, it does become impossible to envision a team without them because a driver of that level is so central to everything you do that you take them out.

All you really have is a vacuum, isn't it?

Which is why he is so important to how they are now.

Obviously, all teams change and you might get another driver like that.

But that does say why keeping him around for as long as they can matters.

as long as he's performing and determined, which he absolutely is, is so important.

No, you're absolutely right in that regard.

I guess the one thing is it connects Matt to the question about where Red Bull Racing is and whether it's got that capability to grow up and galvanise around a new driver of that level or whether sort of some of that is almost attached to Verstappen that he becomes almost the institutional memory of the team because he is such a focal point.

Yeah, it's a good point because, John, I do think actually the loyalty Max Verstappen feels is very genuine.