Eileen

dispositionally curious to engage with that complexity and to wrestle with it together in humane, respectful ways that enable us to settle into conversations that are civically oriented, that are productive, that are pushing us in beneficial directions as a society, as a community, and as individuals.

And that is essentially the ultimate purpose of school, applying all of our knowledge in those developmentally rich ways.

Yes.

Well, Taylor, there is a whole field of research that focuses on exactly that question.

But I'll quickly say here that because people in the workplace are first and foremost people.

These same principles hold and really effective leaders and managers manage well because they tap into the developmental capacities and potentials of the people that are working with them and enable those people to invent just in time ways of doing things and understanding things that feel empowering to them and that actually contribute to the productivity of the whole group while growing the people themselves.

So I think what you're noticing, Taylor, is exactly right.

We need to really be focusing on the ways in which people in their careers feel themselves growing, feel themselves interacting with others, contributing to a communal way of understanding their problem and doing their work.

And that is what is powerful.

That's what makes us productive.

And that's what helps us to grow ourselves and to do our best work.

I agree with you, Shankar.

I mean, I think, Molly, first of all, you're very lucky.

And secondly, I think you've exactly nailed it with that example of scooching your desk over where your goal was to understand the math and be able to figure it out or whatever was on your test.

I forget what the test was about.

Where the teacher's goal was to have you do that math in a very prescriptive way by yourself because that's what we have defined –

as the test of whether or not you know it.

Both things have value in different ways, but we need to be much clearer about why we have decided so overprivileged, independent knowledge, working alone, working under time pressure, not consulting, not collaborating, and then we wonder why in the workplace later our young people don't know how to think in these ways.

It was an immense pleasure.

Thank you, Shankar.