Elena

Like he had to keep like his like communication with them straight, what he told one, what he told the other, like the different stories he was telling them about why he was out of town all the time. Like I can't remember what I had for dinner last night.

Like he had to keep like his like communication with them straight, what he told one, what he told the other, like the different stories he was telling them about why he was out of town all the time. Like I can't remember what I had for dinner last night.

Yes. Stressful. I can't imagine what his nervous system looked like. Oh, it was riddled. It was riddled with anxiety. Maybe it wasn't, though. Maybe he was just totally cool as a cucumber.

Yes. Stressful. I can't imagine what his nervous system looked like. Oh, it was riddled. It was riddled with anxiety. Maybe it wasn't, though. Maybe he was just totally cool as a cucumber.

You better believe.

You better believe.

Yeah, definitely. He was never really taught to have a strong emotional tie to anything because his own parents treated him like shit. And his mother really treated him like shit. And then, I mean, once he finally got out of there, what was he, 12 years old, I think, when he got out of there and went on his own? It's like then the world treated him like shit.

Yeah, definitely. He was never really taught to have a strong emotional tie to anything because his own parents treated him like shit. And his mother really treated him like shit. And then, I mean, once he finally got out of there, what was he, 12 years old, I think, when he got out of there and went on his own? It's like then the world treated him like shit.

And obviously that's no validation or like justification for what he did. It's just I think this is why he was able, like you said, to just like shut it off because he was like, well, no one's ever had any connection to me. So why should I have a real connection to anyone else?

And obviously that's no validation or like justification for what he did. It's just I think this is why he was able, like you said, to just like shut it off because he was like, well, no one's ever had any connection to me. So why should I have a real connection to anyone else?

Yeah. Everyone used him for what they could get out of him. So he just decided that that was the life he was going to live. And he did it in the awful way. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And he could have gone the other way. Plenty of people have. Plenty of people have tragic backgrounds. Plenty of people get treated like shit.

Yeah. Everyone used him for what they could get out of him. So he just decided that that was the life he was going to live. And he did it in the awful way. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And he could have gone the other way. Plenty of people have. Plenty of people have tragic backgrounds. Plenty of people get treated like shit.

And they go on to be amazing people who are like, I'm not going to continue this cycle. But he's an asshole.

And they go on to be amazing people who are like, I'm not going to continue this cycle. But he's an asshole.

Yes, be grateful. These are all steps.

Yes, be grateful. These are all steps.

Well, before we get into it even further, I just want to talk really quickly about the writers for this title and the process, because it's really, this is an interesting one. It is. So one of the names you're definitely going to say, wait a second, I know that name. Jim Clemente is one of the authors of this. He's a former FBI profiler who was part of the team that cracked the DC sniper case.

Well, before we get into it even further, I just want to talk really quickly about the writers for this title and the process, because it's really, this is an interesting one. It is. So one of the names you're definitely going to say, wait a second, I know that name. Jim Clemente is one of the authors of this. He's a former FBI profiler who was part of the team that cracked the DC sniper case.

which is wild yeah that's a big deal he's been part of like huge cases like this guy has flex on flex on flex he's a former New York prosecutor he's a writer and producer for Criminal Minds oh love that show yep He's a podcaster for Real Crime Profile, Best Case, Worst Case, FBI Profilers, and Criminal Archives. He's after our own heart with all those podcasts. He is.

which is wild yeah that's a big deal he's been part of like huge cases like this guy has flex on flex on flex he's a former New York prosecutor he's a writer and producer for Criminal Minds oh love that show yep He's a podcaster for Real Crime Profile, Best Case, Worst Case, FBI Profilers, and Criminal Archives. He's after our own heart with all those podcasts. He is.