Elise Hu

Stick around.

We'll be right back after a short break.

I'd love for you to talk a little bit about your relationship with reading and writing, specifically journaling, and how that was such a big part of helping you break free, at least emotionally and spiritually, when you were in prison.

And it was like, if I do not— Write as in W-R-I-T-E.

Oh, I like that.

I'm so glad you brought up shame and the difference between guilt and shame.

We talked earlier about guilt, you know, like feeling bad about doing a thing and then shame being like feeling bad about yourself, like you are bad versus that thing that you did, that action that you took was bad.

You put it on the page, but now you speak very openly and honestly too.

Why was vulnerability such an important place to start for you?

It seems like it's quite a difficult time or a difficult political environment to be talking with young men and boys about vulnerability, shame, compassion, empathy, because of all of this performative masculinity that is out there in the world today and being propagated on YouTube and on the podcasts and all those things.

You work with boys and men and you still talk with them about how important it is

to be vulnerable, to be truly honest with ourselves.

How well is that working in the environment that we're in right now?

I'm glad that you brought up some of the mentors to you in your life.

You are also mentoring a lot of folks.

Your friends and your author friends have also served as mentors and teachers to you in your work.

What have they taught you about what it means to be a good teacher and good ancestor yourself?

As you talk about hope and joy and love, say a little bit more about that.

Why are embracing these things so fundamental to the work that you do?

And how do you find and hold on to joy and love and convey that to others?