Elizabeth Day

I used to be a terrible grudge holder.

And I think I still am in the sense that I never forget if someone has inflicted some kind of pain or humiliation on me.

But I think I realized when I was reading about your failure to compromise, as you perceive it, sometimes holding on to resentment is the only power left to us.

That's the power we have.

Totally.

Yeah, yeah.

And it belongs to a sort of former version of myself in a way that I want to have evolved out of.

And so now I find, and it's a bit like what you were saying, that if I approach that person mentally with compassion, the one who I think has done me wrong, that actually it diffuses the entire situation.

And I think that's what your work does, because you use empathy as this very powerful tool.

Although your characters might act in really terrible, unlikable ways, there's always something that you bring in that makes them understandable.

Your final failure, that's no easy thing.

It's your failure as an athlete.

So you used to be a very good squash player.

It sounds as though the worst part of it for you was the letting down of other people.

What do you think that experience taught you about failure or about yourself?

Yes.

I almost called the podcast Fail Better.

I mean, what a perfect note to bring this to a close to.

But actually, it makes me curious as to what you're working on now, because I know you must be working on something because you are a workaholic.

Is it a lighthearted romp?