Emanuele Berry

The next day, Nevaeh sent me a text. She made the choice to believe that the blacked-out name, the person who did not participate, was Katie. Reading the FOIA made Nevaeh think about their relationship, about who she could trust, something she'd been struggling with. Before this incident, she had no reason to think that Katie wasn't an honest person.

The next day, Nevaeh sent me a text. She made the choice to believe that the blacked-out name, the person who did not participate, was Katie. Reading the FOIA made Nevaeh think about their relationship, about who she could trust, something she'd been struggling with. Before this incident, she had no reason to think that Katie wasn't an honest person.

She said she reached out to Katie to apologize, and Katie had responded. Nevaeh did not just want to know what was said about her in the chat. She wanted everyone to know. She wanted to talk about it.

She said she reached out to Katie to apologize, and Katie had responded. Nevaeh did not just want to know what was said about her in the chat. She wanted everyone to know. She wanted to talk about it.

But the message she felt like she kept getting, from her school, the police, her friends, from the school board meeting in her town, from the 500-page blacked-out FOIA, was we don't want to talk about this. We don't want to talk about racism. It's the same message that has been on repeat everywhere in this moment of backlash. And as a kid, if that's the message you're getting, bury the racism.

But the message she felt like she kept getting, from her school, the police, her friends, from the school board meeting in her town, from the 500-page blacked-out FOIA, was we don't want to talk about this. We don't want to talk about racism. It's the same message that has been on repeat everywhere in this moment of backlash. And as a kid, if that's the message you're getting, bury the racism.

What do you do with that? About an hour after I left their house, Nevaeh's mom sent me a picture. Nevaeh in her room, sitting on her bed, surrounded by the foyer, which she'd arranged in many little stacks of paper, like a detective sorting and sifting through the clues. Still puzzling, still trying to find something to help her make sense of it all.

What do you do with that? About an hour after I left their house, Nevaeh's mom sent me a picture. Nevaeh in her room, sitting on her bed, surrounded by the foyer, which she'd arranged in many little stacks of paper, like a detective sorting and sifting through the clues. Still puzzling, still trying to find something to help her make sense of it all.

Since this story aired a few years ago, Nevaeh has started college. She's studying psychology, still trying to figure out how people work. Coming up, a person who does not want to know anything about what's being said behind their back. That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues. It's This American Life. I'm Emanuel Berry in for Ira Glass.

Since this story aired a few years ago, Nevaeh has started college. She's studying psychology, still trying to figure out how people work. Coming up, a person who does not want to know anything about what's being said behind their back. That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues. It's This American Life. I'm Emanuel Berry in for Ira Glass.

Today, our show, Talking While Black. This episode originally ran in 2022. We're rerunning it at this moment when anti-DEI measures are sweeping the country. In the last five years, we've gone from companies tweeting out Black Lives Matter, all these diversity initiatives, to now, where it feels like even just saying something is Black is controversial.

Today, our show, Talking While Black. This episode originally ran in 2022. We're rerunning it at this moment when anti-DEI measures are sweeping the country. In the last five years, we've gone from companies tweeting out Black Lives Matter, all these diversity initiatives, to now, where it feels like even just saying something is Black is controversial.

States are passing laws to limit conversations about racism. Black people are losing their jobs for talking about race too much. I keep returning to this question over the last few months. In this backlash, what are you allowed to say? Like, as a Black person, like, what about Black lives or the Black experience is actually okay to talk about? This next story gets at this question.

States are passing laws to limit conversations about racism. Black people are losing their jobs for talking about race too much. I keep returning to this question over the last few months. In this backlash, what are you allowed to say? Like, as a Black person, like, what about Black lives or the Black experience is actually okay to talk about? This next story gets at this question.

We've arrived at Act 2 of our program, Act 2, The Farce Awakens. One place where you can see this dizzying whiplash is books by Black people and about Black people. After the murder of George Floyd, sales of Black books skyrocketed. Ibram X. Kendi's Stamped from the Beginning, The New Jim Crow, So You Want to Talk About Race were all of a sudden bestsellers.

We've arrived at Act 2 of our program, Act 2, The Farce Awakens. One place where you can see this dizzying whiplash is books by Black people and about Black people. After the murder of George Floyd, sales of Black books skyrocketed. Ibram X. Kendi's Stamped from the Beginning, The New Jim Crow, So You Want to Talk About Race were all of a sudden bestsellers.

For a window of time, people really wanted to hear what Black authors had to say. And then, they dramatically did not want to hear anymore. Not only did sales slow, but there are now efforts to ban many of these books that were so celebrated. Producer Hana Jaffe-Walt spoke with one author who found his book banned, and whose professional arc is sort of a mirror for this backlash. Here's Hana.

For a window of time, people really wanted to hear what Black authors had to say. And then, they dramatically did not want to hear anymore. Not only did sales slow, but there are now efforts to ban many of these books that were so celebrated. Producer Hana Jaffe-Walt spoke with one author who found his book banned, and whose professional arc is sort of a mirror for this backlash. Here's Hana.

Hannah Jaffe-Wall is one of the producers of our show.

Hannah Jaffe-Wall is one of the producers of our show.