Emma Pinchbeck

Energy is really misunderstood.

Completely agree that the electricity price is a problem.

I think the next sentence, though, often in the political debate is, and that's because of net zero or because of the renewables.

Which is rubbish.

Which is rubbish.

Investors, as you know, Robert, aren't fans of change and change to markets and 25-year infrastructure projects.

Investor certainty to get the stuff built or consumer benefit pre-2030.

Okay, that is a big question.

Both 2022, which I worked on really closely with the energy sector because I was leading the energy trade body at the time and responsible for the response to that crisis.

And then now have been caused by a spike in the price of fossil fuels.

And underneath that, a global market that the UK has little influence on, but is in the receipt of the...

unpredictability of that market and of the prices that come out of it.

And so I think at a common sense level

Most people would understand the idea that reducing your exposure to that volatility means getting off the fuel that's causing it or separating yourself somehow from that global market.

Two things.

Firstly, the renewables that we've got in the system now are already helping a bit to insulate us from some of that shock because in having renewables on the system, they're displacing the fossil fuels that you would otherwise be buying in.

And we know that from the last crisis, having renewables on the system, having insulated homes, that in itself helped reduce some of the exposure to the gas price shock in particular.

It's a slightly different shock this time, of course, being oil, not gas.

But the principle holds.

And then if you think about how you fund the transition, one of the things the Climate Change Committee has said is we would like to see those levies move into taxation or elsewhere.