Emma Pinchbeck

And it's a difficult political climate.

Now, all we can do at the committee is lay out the alternatives, which is one thing we do.

So we show them different policy options and where the trade-offs are for different households.

But fundamentally, you do need someone to want to own that challenge of talking to households about the change that is coming or own the complexity of making electricity cheap before it otherwise will be.

And the deliberative point too, which is when we do these citizens panels, people often come in with questions or scepticism.

But in being willing to have a long conversation with them and show them trade-offs, the public is smart.

They think about the bills all the time and they will happily advise us where they think those trade-offs are.

They never come out saying we shouldn't do it.

They come out saying things like we think that you should put in place support for the vulnerable.

But they give a very clear frame of reference for the transition.

None of them think that we shouldn't be doing it or that they can't see the advantages.

They just want a politician to...

communicate the problem better, lead them through the process and make some decisions about the kind of trade-offs in a straightforward way.

I don't know why.

I mean, from my point of view, I think that you need to do both things at once.

You need to build the infrastructure and you need to think about the bill.

And sometimes...

There is a, you can't make those two things meet, but often you can.

And you should wrap it all together.

And especially in the environment we're in, we at the Climate Change Committee really think that it is essential we get cheap electricity away.