Emmanuel Jochi

And just by existing, just by doing stuff, I'm the first of this.

Every other Black person I'm meeting is the first person to do this or is exceptional in kind of some way by virtue of the fact we're in this room or this place.

But, I don't know, I feel like the stakes of it are way more real for, like, Gen Xers or, like, people who came before.

For our parents.

A hundred percent.

And also it's just like, it's so telling to me because he came up doing one type of comedy that was very white people safe.

And then ultimately had a break with that.

And then by necessity kind of had to reshape himself in front of Black audiences.

Right.

And then he was okay and then became famous doing that.

But it still took him to the same place where it's like he still ends up performing in front of white people.

And as funny as you were describing this, it kind of reminded me of like what happened to Dave Chappelle many years later.

When you're making all these jokes, you get famous for, like in Dave Chappelle's case, making the Dave Chappelle Show, which was like this sort of skit show that aired in like the early 2000s.

And you got famous for like doing these very like avant-garde, risky, very race-focused, very honest.

Honest.

Jokes that black people loved.

And then eventually he had to stop because it was just like, wait, I feel like white people are laughing at this in a way that is making me very uncomfortable.

And me being the biggest this show has ever been at the height of his fame, the attention he's drawing and trying to figure out just like, okay, how can I be this famous when I have white fans?

And in a white gaze.

Yeah.