Eric Campbell

It could bring

all kinds of institutions close to collapse.

And if you look at what the Five Eyes, as you say, New Zealand is part of this, Canada, Australia, USA and the UK, you see what the UK's National Cyber Security Centre says you've got to do to get a handle on this, adding that by 2027, it will be disastrous unless people do get a handle on it.

It's not very much.

They say this is a really important thing.

You need somebody in your organization who's working on it full time.

Well,

So just to give you a figure, the outstanding claims liability, that's what ACC expects to pay to existing cases, went from $30 billion in 2015 to $63 billion in 2024.

So that was a massive deterioration.

The government understood that something had to be done, so they mandated a turnaround.

We've got the first results, but it's only half a turnaround because currently ACC only really says you are basically rehabilitated if we don't pay you for five weeks.

But that's not a real measure because, as you said, when ACC really checked the cases, they found that more than 80 percent had actually not returned to their previous job.

So the real measure of success for ACC is not whether they get people off the books.

It's actually whether they restore them to health and bring them back into the labour market.

Absolutely.

That's fair enough.

But the problem is actually some of them don't return to any work at all.

That's the problem.

So we have to make sure that they actually don't linger on ACC, that ACC doesn't become another form of welfare.

And for that, we have to speed up the operations of ACC.