Eric Jorgenson

But both are caught in the, like, if you make the first step of the meeting, like what is the point of this meeting and who belongs in it?

Like who has a hand in the solution that we're trying to arrive at?

And spend the first five minutes of a meeting on that and make it a cultural norm to dismiss people from meetings that are not like, I don't have a good case for being here and great.

I want to be somewhere else.

There's a dynamic where people, I think, want to be in the same room as the person, the CEO, the leader, the whatever.

Those meetings are an opportunity for FaceTime, probably, in some ways that are more about the political game than the output.

Yeah, I mean, that is the two-word summary of half of the book, which is very difficult to fully unpack.

But the ability to really understand and observe in yourself what you want to do naturally, your ikigai or whatever.

And one way to do that is to look at the things that you did as a kid, like when you were like –

10, 12, ask your family, ask your friends, what are the things that you were naturally drawn to?

What are the things that you do in spare time?

What are the things that you do even though nobody's paying you to do it?

Or what's the 10% of your job that you like really, really love and find yourself doing it more than you should.

Like these are all maybe signs that you're sort of drawn to do a particular thing.

And I've experienced this in my life is like the stuff that you do for fun,

or without expectation of reward is sometimes turns out to be the most rewarding thing.

I give away, we've given away like 5 million copies of this book, but we've also sold like millions.

So I have made a lot of money, but when I, when I wrote it, I fully expected like a thousand people to buy this thing.

I thought it was going to be a passion project for Naval nerds like me that, um, would never make any money, but I would have learned a lot by doing it.

And I did learn a lot by doing it.