Eric Topol

So back in the 50s and earlier in the 20th century, there was Lysenko and all the things that were going on there.

And for those who are not familiar with Russian history, can you just give us a quick primer?

We're going to talk about that, too, because what you're bringing up with health and wellness industry is something a lot of people are not quite aware of.

But this Wakefield paper, which gave legs to the likes of RFK Jr., and in many ways is really the modern, you know, in the last few decades, it really would help build this anti-science industry.

community, which is now so organized and funded and politically supported.

Of course, another big jolt was the climate anti-science in the late 2000s, like 2008, 2009, that you review in the book.

And then, of course, now with the pandemic just taken to a yet new height.

Now, in this time, you

especially, I call you the first physician scientist warrior.

I wrote that in your last book, and now I add Michael Mann as another

scientist warrior.

We never had a species.

Yeah, so true, because you're taking a lot of hits.

I mean, you've had death threats.

Many have had death threats, but not everybody's had people going right to their house to confront them.

and to try to, you know, personal ad hominem stuff left and right.

And you stood up to it.

You're still standing up to it.

Well, Peter, when you go to give lectures, which you do at a lot of universities, we're going to talk about universities in a minute, too, that are under siege.

It's part of the science under siege.