Erica Frantz

And perhaps Bukele has been even more effective in that we haven't seen the same sort of general societal concern for his relationship with the media. that we do here. But regardless, there is this obsession that we see in lots of these incumbents that degrade democracy with the way in which they're portrayed. And in some ways, it is somewhat comical.

And perhaps Bukele has been even more effective in that we haven't seen the same sort of general societal concern for his relationship with the media. that we do here. But regardless, there is this obsession that we see in lots of these incumbents that degrade democracy with the way in which they're portrayed. And in some ways, it is somewhat comical.

But in other ways, it's something we should take fairly seriously because it degrades the ability of the media in many instances to speak truthfully. So on the one hand, we've seen that leaders who are at the helm of personalist parties Once they get elected, the chance of democratic erosion and backsliding goes up considerably.

But in other ways, it's something we should take fairly seriously because it degrades the ability of the media in many instances to speak truthfully. So on the one hand, we've seen that leaders who are at the helm of personalist parties Once they get elected, the chance of democratic erosion and backsliding goes up considerably.

And the playbook that they use to undermine democracy follows a similar format.

And the playbook that they use to undermine democracy follows a similar format.

Yeah, so probably one of the first regimes where we saw this play out that got some media attention would be Venezuela under Hugo Chavez. And since then, we've seen a number of other places experience similar dynamics like Erdogan in Turkey, Viktor Orban in Hungary. The list is actually really long of these democratically elected leaders taking over power.

Yeah, so probably one of the first regimes where we saw this play out that got some media attention would be Venezuela under Hugo Chavez. And since then, we've seen a number of other places experience similar dynamics like Erdogan in Turkey, Viktor Orban in Hungary. The list is actually really long of these democratically elected leaders taking over power.

And in places like Chavez's Venezuela, we often forget that Venezuela had been one of the strongest democracies in Latin America when Chavez got elected in 1998. So we have this very robust democracy, and this leader comes to power via free and fair elections. He had created his own movement to back him, this Chavista movement, the name of which has shifted over time.

And in places like Chavez's Venezuela, we often forget that Venezuela had been one of the strongest democracies in Latin America when Chavez got elected in 1998. So we have this very robust democracy, and this leader comes to power via free and fair elections. He had created his own movement to back him, this Chavista movement, the name of which has shifted over time.

And slowly he started to implement policies that gave him greater control and that undermined the power of his opponents. And this included things like messing with the judiciary. And by that, I mean changing the rules so that Chavez could ensure that he had more loyalists in key judicial positions. Leaders in other countries have done a variety of things to take control over the judiciary.

And slowly he started to implement policies that gave him greater control and that undermined the power of his opponents. And this included things like messing with the judiciary. And by that, I mean changing the rules so that Chavez could ensure that he had more loyalists in key judicial positions. Leaders in other countries have done a variety of things to take control over the judiciary.

They have changed things like the age that a judge must be to retire to ensure that there's some forced retirement so they can staff the courts with their loyalists. They also go after the media. And either they... take over existing media outlets and staff them with their supporters, or they sideline the traditional media and basically see it as some sort of evil operated against them.

They have changed things like the age that a judge must be to retire to ensure that there's some forced retirement so they can staff the courts with their loyalists. They also go after the media. And either they... take over existing media outlets and staff them with their supporters, or they sideline the traditional media and basically see it as some sort of evil operated against them.

They also implement policies that make it more difficult for their opponents to win office. And then what we see is that over time, the ability of these traditional institutional checks on the executive to constrain the leader degrade, and eventually leaders start messing with the electoral process, which is the kind of fundamental core of a democracy, and we see democracy erode.

They also implement policies that make it more difficult for their opponents to win office. And then what we see is that over time, the ability of these traditional institutional checks on the executive to constrain the leader degrade, and eventually leaders start messing with the electoral process, which is the kind of fundamental core of a democracy, and we see democracy erode.

So, I'm really glad you asked that, actually, because... When Trump got elected in 2016, you know, I study authoritarian politics and democratic backsliding. And at the time, there wasn't too much interest in my research, right? So at least not from, you know, journalists covering American politics. And...

So, I'm really glad you asked that, actually, because... When Trump got elected in 2016, you know, I study authoritarian politics and democratic backsliding. And at the time, there wasn't too much interest in my research, right? So at least not from, you know, journalists covering American politics. And...

At the time, it seemed like everyone was really quick to say that democracy is falling apart in the U.S. So we have democratic backsliding happening in Hungary and Turkey and Poland, and certainly it's going to happen here. And I kind of pushed back against that because there were a couple of factors that the U.S. had going for it.

At the time, it seemed like everyone was really quick to say that democracy is falling apart in the U.S. So we have democratic backsliding happening in Hungary and Turkey and Poland, and certainly it's going to happen here. And I kind of pushed back against that because there were a couple of factors that the U.S. had going for it.