Ernesto Londoño

And then a few days later, we published a piece that walked readers through how fraud got so pervasive in Minnesota and that examined the role racism and politics played in allowing it to metastasize over the years.

And all this was happening at the same time as people in the nation's capital were reeling from that horrific shooting of two members of the National Guard.

The gunman in that case was an Afghan man who had been admitted in recent years into the country.

And I think that added an element that the administration had more political cover to be more draconian in its immigration crackdown, particularly as it pertained to countries that are riven with instability and conflict.

That's right.

And the desire by President Trump and people in his circle to limit immigration from specific countries dates back to his first term, obviously, and was met with tremendous pushback, both from the public and from the courts.

I think now, though, they may feel that they have a little more leverage to push this through, to get more people in handcuffs and out of the country, and to close the door to American immigration based on nationality.

And at that cabinet meeting on Tuesday, President Trump said the United States was at a crossroads.

He said that he was fed up with people coming here from impoverished, conflict-ridden countries, and as he sees it, leeching off the welfare state.

Yeah, I think there's a sense that in this current era, they feel emboldened to say the quiet part out loud and to say things that would have been unimaginable and career-ending for mainstream politicians in the not-too-distant past.

But all of a sudden, we are seeing these ideas and these notions become mainstream policies and mainstream subjects of debate.

Yeah, I think this is a very challenging mission for ICE and I think it's likely to look very different from what we've seen earlier this year in places like Chicago or Los Angeles.

You know, for starters, the number of people who may be subject to deportation appears to be pretty small.

We may be talking about just a few hundred people who may have outstanding deportation orders and who can sort of be put into the system.

And there's kind of a more mundane challenge.

And that is that this week has been bone chilling in Minnesota.

And people are spending as little time as possible on the streets.

And agents, I think, are facing real pain if they're out and about knocking on doors, staking out businesses and residences.

That in and of itself is going to be a monumental challenge for ICE.

Yeah, I think this is a really painful question that...