Ezra Klein

So I want to have on some other folks from within this intellectual hothouse to talk through what has happened, what we've learned from the arguments, the critiques, the coalitions that are forming and fracturing, and what we think needs to happen next.

Derek Thompson is a contributing writer at The Atlantic.

He is, of course, a co-author of Abundance and the author of a great Substack newsletter under his name.

Mark Dunkelman is a fellow at the Searchlight Institute and at Brown University.

And the author of a book that came out around the same time, Why Nothing Works, which is about some very similar ideas, but with a much more historical perspective.

So I want to have them on together to sort of talk through what we've seen and what we think is coming.

As always, my email, Ezra Kalanchoe at NYTimes.com.

Mark Dunkelman, Derek Thompson, welcome to the show.

It's good to be here.

Thrilled to be here, yeah.

So our books came out a little more than a year ago.

Congratulations to everybody.

But just at the high level, where's your head at?

What are you feeling good about?

What are you feeling worried about a year in?

And Derek, start with you.

It's even more worrisome to me.

You look at 2015 to 2026, you don't even see the YIMBY movement.

That is exactly right.

More optimistic than that?