Ezra Klein

And it just kind of scrambles people's ideological categories a bit. So I just did this podcast with Governor Newsom. And we were talking about high-speed rail, which he walked into office and it was already fucked. And he's the one who came in and said, we are going to shrink this from LA to SF, which we have no money and no capability to do, to Merced to Bakersfield.

And it just kind of scrambles people's ideological categories a bit. So I just did this podcast with Governor Newsom. And we were talking about high-speed rail, which he walked into office and it was already fucked. And he's the one who came in and said, we are going to shrink this from LA to SF, which we have no money and no capability to do, to Merced to Bakersfield.

And you can critique him for not scrapping it because I'm not sure Merced to Bakersfield is worth doing. But I was talking with him because the book is very critical of California governance. And he was very, interestingly to me, positive on the critique. He's like, this is right. This is what's going wrong. But what he said is like, look, we cannot build under this level of lawsuit.

And you can critique him for not scrapping it because I'm not sure Merced to Bakersfield is worth doing. But I was talking with him because the book is very critical of California governance. And he was very, interestingly to me, positive on the critique. He's like, this is right. This is what's going wrong. But what he said is like, look, we cannot build under this level of lawsuit.

He's like, high-speed rail is built- He put it in the litigation. That was- Well, that's a big part of it. One difference between the way we do government in America and the way they do it in Europe is we restrain government through litigation here. A huge amount of the bills passed by both the liberals and, I mean, they're sort of liberalish Republicans then too.

He's like, high-speed rail is built- He put it in the litigation. That was- Well, that's a big part of it. One difference between the way we do government in America and the way they do it in Europe is we restrain government through litigation here. A huge amount of the bills passed by both the liberals and, I mean, they're sort of liberalish Republicans then too.

A lot of the bills, the big environmental bills, are passed by Nixon, right? The EPA is created by Nixon. The National Environmental Policy Act, the Endangered Species Act, that's all Nixon stuff. But it's done with Democrats.

A lot of the bills, the big environmental bills, are passed by Nixon, right? The EPA is created by Nixon. The National Environmental Policy Act, the Endangered Species Act, that's all Nixon stuff. But it's done with Democrats.

Let me say this one as clearly as I possibly can. Democrats have to be the party that owns government reform. Right. One thing is if they don't, then what you're going to get is something like Doge, which is the destruction of the government under the guise of reform. But two, the politics of reform, it is one of the most powerful streams of politics that exists in American life.

Let me say this one as clearly as I possibly can. Democrats have to be the party that owns government reform. Right. One thing is if they don't, then what you're going to get is something like Doge, which is the destruction of the government under the guise of reform. But two, the politics of reform, it is one of the most powerful streams of politics that exists in American life.

I think you could just go back over recent elections. You can basically predict the winner just on who owns the politics of reform. So Obama runs as a good government reformer. I mean people forget this now about him. But like his big pitch was not post-racialism. It was – Yes, we can. The special interests and the lobbyists.

I think you could just go back over recent elections. You can basically predict the winner just on who owns the politics of reform. So Obama runs as a good government reformer. I mean people forget this now about him. But like his big pitch was not post-racialism. It was – Yes, we can. The special interests and the lobbyists.

They're dicing us up into red and blue and they're fooling us and they're fucking up our politics. We're going to get them out of here and we're going to have a government for you. Obama was very much a reformer. Trump, in his own way in 2016, he runs as a reformer. Drain the swamp is a reform line. And Hillary Clinton is very much like, she's been in Washington forever.

They're dicing us up into red and blue and they're fooling us and they're fucking up our politics. We're going to get them out of here and we're going to have a government for you. Obama was very much a reformer. Trump, in his own way in 2016, he runs as a reformer. Drain the swamp is a reform line. And Hillary Clinton is very much like, she's been in Washington forever.

She took all this money from Goldman Sachs, right? She embodies the opposite of reform. Status quo, establishment. Status quo. People always say status quo and change. And I think this is a place where Democrats often don't want to see part of what that implies because they're like, we're not the status quo. We have all these big projects, just as you're saying, John, to give people money.

She took all this money from Goldman Sachs, right? She embodies the opposite of reform. Status quo, establishment. Status quo. People always say status quo and change. And I think this is a place where Democrats often don't want to see part of what that implies because they're like, we're not the status quo. We have all these big projects, just as you're saying, John, to give people money.

But status quo is also about this question of, will you change the way the thing works? So Trump runs as a reformer. In 2020, in a way, like during the pandemic, when the Trump administration is fucking up government left and right, I wouldn't really say Biden runs on an agenda of reform, but he does run on agenda of trying to make government work and believe science and things like that.

But status quo is also about this question of, will you change the way the thing works? So Trump runs as a reformer. In 2020, in a way, like during the pandemic, when the Trump administration is fucking up government left and right, I wouldn't really say Biden runs on an agenda of reform, but he does run on agenda of trying to make government work and believe science and things like that.

And we were in a very unusual moment in 2020. And then in 2024, Harris has this very unusual problem of running as sort of the incumbent, but not the incumbent. She runs as the defender of the institutions. Yes. Not the reformer. That's right. And the politics of government reform, like Bill Clinton ran on government reform, right? Reinventing government. Al Gore on with David Letterman. Right.

And we were in a very unusual moment in 2020. And then in 2024, Harris has this very unusual problem of running as sort of the incumbent, but not the incumbent. She runs as the defender of the institutions. Yes. Not the reformer. That's right. And the politics of government reform, like Bill Clinton ran on government reform, right? Reinventing government. Al Gore on with David Letterman. Right.