Ezra Klein

And I think a lot of people who are not, you know, there are people who are trying to protect something, protect a standing in the polls, protect a sort of coalitional set of allies they currently have. And then there are people who are, you know, trying to just be heard. Again, a lot of Bernie Sanders' culture, the way he does media, is now Bernie Sanders is Bernie Sanders. He didn't used to be.

He wasn't in 2015 even. Like when Bernie Sanders ran for president in 2015, it wasn't initially a big deal. It was like, oh, bummer, Elizabeth Warren didn't run for president. It was a feeling of most people on the left. And so Bernie Sanders was a guy who's been saying the same thing for decades, but in the wilderness and nobody was listening.

He wasn't in 2015 even. Like when Bernie Sanders ran for president in 2015, it wasn't initially a big deal. It was like, oh, bummer, Elizabeth Warren didn't run for president. It was a feeling of most people on the left. And so Bernie Sanders was a guy who's been saying the same thing for decades, but in the wilderness and nobody was listening.

He wasn't in 2015 even. Like when Bernie Sanders ran for president in 2015, it wasn't initially a big deal. It was like, oh, bummer, Elizabeth Warren didn't run for president. It was a feeling of most people on the left. And so Bernie Sanders was a guy who's been saying the same thing for decades, but in the wilderness and nobody was listening.

And now he still has the instincts of somebody who understood that the most important thing was to find a place where people were listening, where they would let you talk and even better let you talk for a while. I think the candidate who's going to do well in 2028 is going to have an instinct like that.

And now he still has the instincts of somebody who understood that the most important thing was to find a place where people were listening, where they would let you talk and even better let you talk for a while. I think the candidate who's going to do well in 2028 is going to have an instinct like that.

And now he still has the instincts of somebody who understood that the most important thing was to find a place where people were listening, where they would let you talk and even better let you talk for a while. I think the candidate who's going to do well in 2028 is going to have an instinct like that.

But even right now, I think the question is, one of my big questions as I'm booking for my show is just, I want someone who has a perspective on this moment, who feels like they have had a thought that is about right now and who we are right now and what the story of America is right now. I think what's really important is what Ezra said.

But even right now, I think the question is, one of my big questions as I'm booking for my show is just, I want someone who has a perspective on this moment, who feels like they have had a thought that is about right now and who we are right now and what the story of America is right now. I think what's really important is what Ezra said.

But even right now, I think the question is, one of my big questions as I'm booking for my show is just, I want someone who has a perspective on this moment, who feels like they have had a thought that is about right now and who we are right now and what the story of America is right now. I think what's really important is what Ezra said.

There's also a reality, and I mean, the book is trying to enter into this reality. I think one thing you're saying is that people have coded you.

There's also a reality, and I mean, the book is trying to enter into this reality. I think one thing you're saying is that people have coded you.

There's also a reality, and I mean, the book is trying to enter into this reality. I think one thing you're saying is that people have coded you.

And so Donald Trump is really excited to do it and maybe loving politicians or not. One thing that we think is that we're in a period of realignment. The last chapter of the book, we talk about an idea that is picked up from a historian named Gary Garstow, which is the idea of political orders.

And so Donald Trump is really excited to do it and maybe loving politicians or not. One thing that we think is that we're in a period of realignment. The last chapter of the book, we talk about an idea that is picked up from a historian named Gary Garstow, which is the idea of political orders.

And so Donald Trump is really excited to do it and maybe loving politicians or not. One thing that we think is that we're in a period of realignment. The last chapter of the book, we talk about an idea that is picked up from a historian named Gary Garstow, which is the idea of political orders.

And political orders are periods that have a sort of structure of consensus and a structure of a zone of conflict. But it's more or less agreed on by the two sides, even if only tacitly. So you have a New Deal order. New Deal order is founded by FDR. It is entrenched when Dwight Eisenhower accepts the New Deal as part of the U.S. proving that it can treat workers better than the Soviet Union.

And political orders are periods that have a sort of structure of consensus and a structure of a zone of conflict. But it's more or less agreed on by the two sides, even if only tacitly. So you have a New Deal order. New Deal order is founded by FDR. It is entrenched when Dwight Eisenhower accepts the New Deal as part of the U.S. proving that it can treat workers better than the Soviet Union.

And political orders are periods that have a sort of structure of consensus and a structure of a zone of conflict. But it's more or less agreed on by the two sides, even if only tacitly. So you have a New Deal order. New Deal order is founded by FDR. It is entrenched when Dwight Eisenhower accepts the New Deal as part of the U.S. proving that it can treat workers better than the Soviet Union.

So those are sort of right there, the three ingredients typically of an order. You have a part of it starts it. A opposition party that accepts key premises, right? Dwight Eisenhower doesn't come in and say, we're going to roll back the whole New Deal. And it's often held in place by an external antagonist, in that case, the Soviet Union.