Ezra Klein

I know I'm jumping in again, but I'll do something quick and then pass it to you. I'm not... a huge fan of the experiment framing because amidst this experiment, people are, through USAID, as my colleague Nick Kristof has documented, and potentially further in other ways will die, lose homes, be scammed by things. So I feel like experimenting with the government at that level is very dangerous.

I know I'm jumping in again, but I'll do something quick and then pass it to you. I'm not... a huge fan of the experiment framing because amidst this experiment, people are, through USAID, as my colleague Nick Kristof has documented, and potentially further in other ways will die, lose homes, be scammed by things. So I feel like experimenting with the government at that level is very dangerous.

I know I'm jumping in again, but I'll do something quick and then pass it to you. I'm not... a huge fan of the experiment framing because amidst this experiment, people are, through USAID, as my colleague Nick Kristof has documented, and potentially further in other ways will die, lose homes, be scammed by things. So I feel like experimenting with the government at that level is very dangerous.

But assuming democracy survives, Democrats, if they're going to make the government work again, are going to have to become less rule-bound than they were. I have this line that the problem with the personality type of the right is it's autocratic now, and the problem with the personality type of the left is it's bureaucratic.

But assuming democracy survives, Democrats, if they're going to make the government work again, are going to have to become less rule-bound than they were. I have this line that the problem with the personality type of the right is it's autocratic now, and the problem with the personality type of the left is it's bureaucratic.

But assuming democracy survives, Democrats, if they're going to make the government work again, are going to have to become less rule-bound than they were. I have this line that the problem with the personality type of the right is it's autocratic now, and the problem with the personality type of the left is it's bureaucratic.

And I don't wanna see things going either to where Doge is in terms of, I think there's a fundamental lawlessness to it, but I also don't like the aims of it. But I don't wanna see things where Democrats were, which is such unfathomably, which is such respect for process that they will put the process ahead of getting their own things done.

And I don't wanna see things going either to where Doge is in terms of, I think there's a fundamental lawlessness to it, but I also don't like the aims of it. But I don't wanna see things where Democrats were, which is such unfathomably, which is such respect for process that they will put the process ahead of getting their own things done.

And I don't wanna see things going either to where Doge is in terms of, I think there's a fundamental lawlessness to it, but I also don't like the aims of it. But I don't wanna see things where Democrats were, which is such unfathomably, which is such respect for process that they will put the process ahead of getting their own things done.

They will listen to any lawyer with any super intense interpretation of any law, and that'll turn them all the way back. What Doge has demonstrated is, Is it the room for movement inside the American government, inside the state, is much wider than anybody gave it credit for, both Republican and Democratic administrations? It may not be as wide.

They will listen to any lawyer with any super intense interpretation of any law, and that'll turn them all the way back. What Doge has demonstrated is, Is it the room for movement inside the American government, inside the state, is much wider than anybody gave it credit for, both Republican and Democratic administrations? It may not be as wide.

They will listen to any lawyer with any super intense interpretation of any law, and that'll turn them all the way back. What Doge has demonstrated is, Is it the room for movement inside the American government, inside the state, is much wider than anybody gave it credit for, both Republican and Democratic administrations? It may not be as wide.

It probably isn't legally as wide as what Doge is trying to do. And that's why they're losing all these court cases. But it is wide. And you could also use Congress, right? You could pass statute to make it wider. And you should. There is no abundance agenda that works legally. If the Democratic Party is as rule bound and as process obsessed as it was in the last 10 years, it doesn't work flatly.

It probably isn't legally as wide as what Doge is trying to do. And that's why they're losing all these court cases. But it is wide. And you could also use Congress, right? You could pass statute to make it wider. And you should. There is no abundance agenda that works legally. If the Democratic Party is as rule bound and as process obsessed as it was in the last 10 years, it doesn't work flatly.

It probably isn't legally as wide as what Doge is trying to do. And that's why they're losing all these court cases. But it is wide. And you could also use Congress, right? You could pass statute to make it wider. And you should. There is no abundance agenda that works legally. If the Democratic Party is as rule bound and as process obsessed as it was in the last 10 years, it doesn't work flatly.

Right. That is why so many of the stories we tell in the book are about process gone. Not just it's not process gone wrong because it's doing exactly what it was intended to do, but it is process that has become antagonistic to the promised outcomes. Right. And so I do hope there's a kind of, you know, thesis, right? All the institutions are great. Democrats are the defenders of government.

Right. That is why so many of the stories we tell in the book are about process gone. Not just it's not process gone wrong because it's doing exactly what it was intended to do, but it is process that has become antagonistic to the promised outcomes. Right. And so I do hope there's a kind of, you know, thesis, right? All the institutions are great. Democrats are the defenders of government.

Right. That is why so many of the stories we tell in the book are about process gone. Not just it's not process gone wrong because it's doing exactly what it was intended to do, but it is process that has become antagonistic to the promised outcomes. Right. And so I do hope there's a kind of, you know, thesis, right? All the institutions are great. Democrats are the defenders of government.

Antithesis, the government is a corrupt cesspool. It's a, you know, it's a ball of worms and it has to be destroyed and taken over by a benevolent or non-benevolent dictator. And synthesis, which is that... The government's process has made it not a functional state. It's non-responsive in many important ways.

Antithesis, the government is a corrupt cesspool. It's a, you know, it's a ball of worms and it has to be destroyed and taken over by a benevolent or non-benevolent dictator. And synthesis, which is that... The government's process has made it not a functional state. It's non-responsive in many important ways.