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Fareed Zakaria

πŸ‘€ Speaker
1398 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

The Ezra Klein Show
The Dark Heart of Trump's Foreign Policy

And when Obama tried to push him on the Iran nuclear thing, Bibi just did an end run around Obama, went to Washington, got the Republicans to invite him to give a joint speech to the joint session of Congress and completely tied Obama in knots on that one. So that is a particular problem. But I agree with you that tactically, there are some places where you could push harder.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Dark Heart of Trump's Foreign Policy

And when Obama tried to push him on the Iran nuclear thing, Bibi just did an end run around Obama, went to Washington, got the Republicans to invite him to give a joint speech to the joint session of Congress and completely tied Obama in knots on that one. So that is a particular problem. But I agree with you that tactically, there are some places where you could push harder.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Dark Heart of Trump's Foreign Policy

But I think if you ask me which philosophy is the right one for the United States to have, I think it's the one that has built these alliance structures in the system for 80 years by not viewing this as a series of transactions, but as a relationship. Trump is a transaction guy. Think about every real estate deal he's ever done.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Dark Heart of Trump's Foreign Policy

But I think if you ask me which philosophy is the right one for the United States to have, I think it's the one that has built these alliance structures in the system for 80 years by not viewing this as a series of transactions, but as a relationship. Trump is a transaction guy. Think about every real estate deal he's ever done.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Dark Heart of Trump's Foreign Policy

At the end of the day, the person he does the deal with never wants to deal with him again. I mean, that is basically one of the leitmotifs of Trump's business career. He screws you in the deal and then moves on, and the next time around, screws somebody else. But that's not what American foreign policy has been built on.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Dark Heart of Trump's Foreign Policy

At the end of the day, the person he does the deal with never wants to deal with him again. I mean, that is basically one of the leitmotifs of Trump's business career. He screws you in the deal and then moves on, and the next time around, screws somebody else. But that's not what American foreign policy has been built on.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Dark Heart of Trump's Foreign Policy

It's been built on these alliances and these relationships that have endured now for almost a century. And by the way, very few countries have managed that. So Trump, by strong arming a few people, a few of these countries will get in the short term a better deal. Again, we're very powerful. We're very rich. But is that going to build power? real trust for the next 40, 50 years? I don't think so.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Dark Heart of Trump's Foreign Policy

It's been built on these alliances and these relationships that have endured now for almost a century. And by the way, very few countries have managed that. So Trump, by strong arming a few people, a few of these countries will get in the short term a better deal. Again, we're very powerful. We're very rich. But is that going to build power? real trust for the next 40, 50 years? I don't think so.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Dark Heart of Trump's Foreign Policy

It's going to give Trump a few good headlines. And by the way, on the Gaza thing, I think it's important to remember because I've spent a lot of time in the Middle East over the last nine months or so. I've been to Saudi Arabia four times. They were always willing to pay for the reconstruction.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Dark Heart of Trump's Foreign Policy

It's going to give Trump a few good headlines. And by the way, on the Gaza thing, I think it's important to remember because I've spent a lot of time in the Middle East over the last nine months or so. I've been to Saudi Arabia four times. They were always willing to pay for the reconstruction.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Dark Heart of Trump's Foreign Policy

The idea that Trump's bizarre Gaza proposal has gotten the Saudis and the Egyptians to be ready to be involved is not true. The issue has always been who will govern Gaza. And that was, you know, the Israelis say it can't be any Hamas involvement. The Arabs say, look, if it's going to be no Hamas involvement, then you have to allow the Palestinian Authority to do it. And the Israelis say no.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Dark Heart of Trump's Foreign Policy

The idea that Trump's bizarre Gaza proposal has gotten the Saudis and the Egyptians to be ready to be involved is not true. The issue has always been who will govern Gaza. And that was, you know, the Israelis say it can't be any Hamas involvement. The Arabs say, look, if it's going to be no Hamas involvement, then you have to allow the Palestinian Authority to do it. And the Israelis say no.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Dark Heart of Trump's Foreign Policy

And the Israeli response is, why can't the Arabs do it? Well, the Arabs don't want to be in the position of ruling over the Palestinians. They don't want to be in a position where Hamas launches an insurgency against them. That has been the sticking point, not the money. They've always been willing to pay the money. And by the way, that will continue to be the sticking point.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Dark Heart of Trump's Foreign Policy

And the Israeli response is, why can't the Arabs do it? Well, the Arabs don't want to be in the position of ruling over the Palestinians. They don't want to be in a position where Hamas launches an insurgency against them. That has been the sticking point, not the money. They've always been willing to pay the money. And by the way, that will continue to be the sticking point.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Dark Heart of Trump's Foreign Policy

That is the hard part of the Gaza business, not getting the Saudis and the UAE to pony up the cash.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Dark Heart of Trump's Foreign Policy

That is the hard part of the Gaza business, not getting the Saudis and the UAE to pony up the cash.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Dark Heart of Trump's Foreign Policy

Yeah, look, the left has collapsed everywhere. I mean, if you look at Europe, the real story of the European elections over the last 10 years is the collapse of the left. The French left has collapsed. The German left has collapsed. You know, Holland, wherever you look, Sweden was run by the Swedish Social Democrats for 75 years, and they're in trouble.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Dark Heart of Trump's Foreign Policy

Yeah, look, the left has collapsed everywhere. I mean, if you look at Europe, the real story of the European elections over the last 10 years is the collapse of the left. The French left has collapsed. The German left has collapsed. You know, Holland, wherever you look, Sweden was run by the Swedish Social Democrats for 75 years, and they're in trouble.

The Ezra Klein Show
The Dark Heart of Trump's Foreign Policy

And I think it's principally over the issue of immigration. As you know, I've been hardline on immigration. I think the whole system is – the asylum system needs to be scrapped. And the fact that the left was not willing to frontally acknowledge that you had millions of people coming in who were obviously gaming the system, claiming to be asylum seekers when they were really economic migrants –

The Ezra Klein Show
The Dark Heart of Trump's Foreign Policy

And I think it's principally over the issue of immigration. As you know, I've been hardline on immigration. I think the whole system is – the asylum system needs to be scrapped. And the fact that the left was not willing to frontally acknowledge that you had millions of people coming in who were obviously gaming the system, claiming to be asylum seekers when they were really economic migrants –