Fazal

And the website had some kind of tracker on the user. I'm not sure how it worked. But if I were on the phone with them, I can see everything they are clicking and hovering over.

And the website had some kind of tracker on the user. I'm not sure how it worked. But if I were on the phone with them, I can see everything they are clicking and hovering over.

Because what we were doing was building a profile on every new student. The more information we knew about them, the easier it is to sell them on the degree. So once we learned a lot of details about them, we'd call them and say, I'm not sure if you're interested in a business degree, but we have a big sale on them right now. And we knew very well that's exactly what they wanted.

Because what we were doing was building a profile on every new student. The more information we knew about them, the easier it is to sell them on the degree. So once we learned a lot of details about them, we'd call them and say, I'm not sure if you're interested in a business degree, but we have a big sale on them right now. And we knew very well that's exactly what they wanted.

We haven't even got to step one yet. We also had a lead generation team, or maybe marketing team it's called, who would find potential students. What they did was made it so that if anyone posted their resume on monster.com or indeed.com, the marketing team would pick that resume up and look at it to see if they would benefit from a degree from our university.

We haven't even got to step one yet. We also had a lead generation team, or maybe marketing team it's called, who would find potential students. What they did was made it so that if anyone posted their resume on monster.com or indeed.com, the marketing team would pick that resume up and look at it to see if they would benefit from a degree from our university.

I don't know how they were able to immediately see everyone's resumes, but we were sent a lot of resumes.

I don't know how they were able to immediately see everyone's resumes, but we were sent a lot of resumes.

We'd then research that person, look for their social media profiles, try to find out their goals and ambitions, get to know them, then email or call them and say something like, Hey, I know you're struggling to find work. I want to help you with that. And of course, I'd try to get them to enroll.

We'd then research that person, look for their social media profiles, try to find out their goals and ambitions, get to know them, then email or call them and say something like, Hey, I know you're struggling to find work. I want to help you with that. And of course, I'd try to get them to enroll.

Yeah, yeah. Okay, step one. We want the student to enroll, yeah? So we offer them a cheap introductory rate. A few courses. Maybe a few hundred dollars. Where are these students typically in the world? Like, are they in Pakistan? No, no, no. I never saw any Pakistani students. We mostly targeted US, UK, some of Europe, and a lot in the Gulf states. Like Saudi Arabia, Jordan, you know, Dubai, UAE.

Yeah, yeah. Okay, step one. We want the student to enroll, yeah? So we offer them a cheap introductory rate. A few courses. Maybe a few hundred dollars. Where are these students typically in the world? Like, are they in Pakistan? No, no, no. I never saw any Pakistani students. We mostly targeted US, UK, some of Europe, and a lot in the Gulf states. Like Saudi Arabia, Jordan, you know, Dubai, UAE.

Because a lot of people there, money was not a factor for them.

Because a lot of people there, money was not a factor for them.

It wasn't just degrees. There were certifications we were offering. And high school diplomas too. But yeah, I did feel like this wasn't right. But Agzak charmed me to get me to not care. It was really weird, let me tell you. You ever see how Google's offices are?

It wasn't just degrees. There were certifications we were offering. And high school diplomas too. But yeah, I did feel like this wasn't right. But Agzak charmed me to get me to not care. It was really weird, let me tell you. You ever see how Google's offices are?

Yeah, we had all that too. But like 100 times more than what Google gives their employees. It was nuts. To begin with, Exact Offices had a kitchen with chefs to make you anything you wanted. Free, of course. But they also partnered with the best restaurants in town. So you could go to an internal website, order food from any of these restaurants, and they'd bring you the food right to your desk.

Yeah, we had all that too. But like 100 times more than what Google gives their employees. It was nuts. To begin with, Exact Offices had a kitchen with chefs to make you anything you wanted. Free, of course. But they also partnered with the best restaurants in town. So you could go to an internal website, order food from any of these restaurants, and they'd bring you the food right to your desk.

And not just like in a paper sack. Whatever food they brought you, it was always done with a touch of class. Served by a butler on a nice metal tray. And they would come collect the dishes from you and bring you any drink you asked for. So our food was taken care of while we were at work, but our food was taken care of at home too.

And not just like in a paper sack. Whatever food they brought you, it was always done with a touch of class. Served by a butler on a nice metal tray. And they would come collect the dishes from you and bring you any drink you asked for. So our food was taken care of while we were at work, but our food was taken care of at home too.

In fact, they didn't want you to fuss with anything outside the office. If you needed groceries, just tell them what you want and someone will deliver it to your home.

In fact, they didn't want you to fuss with anything outside the office. If you needed groceries, just tell them what you want and someone will deliver it to your home.

if your wife needed to see the doctor someone would go to your house and pick her up and take her to the doctor wait there with her and drive her home in fact they gave us two company cars that we could use however we wanted and they would get you anything you asked for take it for a concert or a cricket match they'd get it for you and even drive you there

if your wife needed to see the doctor someone would go to your house and pick her up and take her to the doctor wait there with her and drive her home in fact they gave us two company cars that we could use however we wanted and they would get you anything you asked for take it for a concert or a cricket match they'd get it for you and even drive you there

Oh, they had a yacht you could use. And let me tell you, in a country like Pakistan, this was extremely rare to be able to have access to a yacht. They didn't seem to care at expenses when it came to taking care of their employees. Dang, man, this sounds like a great place to work. Now I want to go work at Exact. No, no, no. Because they have you work every day. 29 days a month.

Oh, they had a yacht you could use. And let me tell you, in a country like Pakistan, this was extremely rare to be able to have access to a yacht. They didn't seem to care at expenses when it came to taking care of their employees. Dang, man, this sounds like a great place to work. Now I want to go work at Exact. No, no, no. Because they have you work every day. 29 days a month.

That's what they required you to do. You get one day off a month. And no matter what you think you need to do, like take your kid somewhere or give your mother a birthday gift, they do it all for you. So you could really focus only on work. And that's all they wanted you to do. Just work all the time. And with students all over the world, you would always be busy. So did they pay you well?

That's what they required you to do. You get one day off a month. And no matter what you think you need to do, like take your kid somewhere or give your mother a birthday gift, they do it all for you. So you could really focus only on work. And that's all they wanted you to do. Just work all the time. And with students all over the world, you would always be busy. So did they pay you well?

The pay wasn't really that good. The commission was 1%. So if you got someone to enroll and they paid $300, you'd get $3. But because everything in your life is taken care of, it felt like we were living very well. Alright, so you told me step 1. Are there more steps to this? Yes. Okay, step 2. So you know once you get them enrolled, they might be in a one or two year program to earn their degree.

The pay wasn't really that good. The commission was 1%. So if you got someone to enroll and they paid $300, you'd get $3. But because everything in your life is taken care of, it felt like we were living very well. Alright, so you told me step 1. Are there more steps to this? Yes. Okay, step 2. So you know once you get them enrolled, they might be in a one or two year program to earn their degree.

And new courses are released every few months for them to finish. But now that they are enrolled, I can call them up and say, Hey, listen, I know you're really itching to get done with school. I think I can talk to the dean and get more classes opened up earlier. Is that something you're interested in? Okay, but listen, what I'm going to be doing isn't easy.

And new courses are released every few months for them to finish. But now that they are enrolled, I can call them up and say, Hey, listen, I know you're really itching to get done with school. I think I can talk to the dean and get more classes opened up earlier. Is that something you're interested in? Okay, but listen, what I'm going to be doing isn't easy.

The dean doesn't like me doing this and I'll need a good reason to do it. So, if I can expedite your classes so you can just take all the classes you need now instead of waiting two years, would you be willing to pay $3,000 for that? And yeah, a lot of them were happy to hear they could finish their degree in just a week.

The dean doesn't like me doing this and I'll need a good reason to do it. So, if I can expedite your classes so you can just take all the classes you need now instead of waiting two years, would you be willing to pay $3,000 for that? And yeah, a lot of them were happy to hear they could finish their degree in just a week.

Well, see, the school website looked real. Like, it had accreditations listed. The website was approved by Secretary of State John Kerry. You know, when the US State Department says this is an accredited school, you believe it. Even though his signature was fake and he didn't actually approve it. But yeah, I think some of them did know. And they didn't care.

Well, see, the school website looked real. Like, it had accreditations listed. The website was approved by Secretary of State John Kerry. You know, when the US State Department says this is an accredited school, you believe it. Even though his signature was fake and he didn't actually approve it. But yeah, I think some of them did know. And they didn't care.

They'd already paid a little and were convinced it was a real school, at least at the beginning. So if they felt it was real, then maybe they thought they could get away with it. They liked it that it seemed so real. So they could believe it and feel good about it. So when we'd send them the certificate or degree, we made it all exciting and congratulatory for them.

They'd already paid a little and were convinced it was a real school, at least at the beginning. So if they felt it was real, then maybe they thought they could get away with it. They liked it that it seemed so real. So they could believe it and feel good about it. So when we'd send them the certificate or degree, we made it all exciting and congratulatory for them.

Even sent them a gown and graduation hat and asked them to take a picture of them wearing it, holding up their certification so we can put it on our website. And they would.

Even sent them a gown and graduation hat and asked them to take a picture of them wearing it, holding up their certification so we can put it on our website. And they would.

They had civil engineering degrees, aeronautical degrees, teaching degrees, you know, English language certificates, law degrees, and a lot of high school diplomas. But we never did fake medical degrees. That was always off limits. Because someone could get hurt.

They had civil engineering degrees, aeronautical degrees, teaching degrees, you know, English language certificates, law degrees, and a lot of high school diplomas. But we never did fake medical degrees. That was always off limits. Because someone could get hurt.

Yeah, I saw that news story too. It's unrelated to what we were doing. We did not sell pilots' licenses. And that story was in Pakistan. And like I said, I never saw any Pakistanis enrolling in these universities. And by the way, once we had one university going good and rolling, they would stand up another new university a few months later.

Yeah, I saw that news story too. It's unrelated to what we were doing. We did not sell pilots' licenses. And that story was in Pakistan. And like I said, I never saw any Pakistanis enrolling in these universities. And by the way, once we had one university going good and rolling, they would stand up another new university a few months later.

Because after a while, these things would be discovered as fake and we'd have to start all over. So it was just good practice to always be building new universities. And they kept giving us new ones to control.

Because after a while, these things would be discovered as fake and we'd have to start all over. So it was just good practice to always be building new universities. And they kept giving us new ones to control.

We had this team of sales agents, but the other people on the team would pose as people who worked at the school. So if you wanted to speak to the dean or administration's department or professor or counselor, we had it all set up to be able to have these roles you can talk to anyone you like.

We had this team of sales agents, but the other people on the team would pose as people who worked at the school. So if you wanted to speak to the dean or administration's department or professor or counselor, we had it all set up to be able to have these roles you can talk to anyone you like.

Right. Our team had a goal of $2.4 million a month. And there were 23 teams in the company. You could see the leaderboard and how well each team is doing.

Right. Our team had a goal of $2.4 million a month. And there were 23 teams in the company. You could see the leaderboard and how well each team is doing.

There are more steps, yes. But here's where it gets weird. And you lose track of your steps. So let's say I had someone pay extra to get their degree quickly and we send them the degree. Well, we could go in a lot of different directions from here. One might be to call them up and say there's been a mistake in the degree. You could just make up whatever you wanted at this point.

There are more steps, yes. But here's where it gets weird. And you lose track of your steps. So let's say I had someone pay extra to get their degree quickly and we send them the degree. Well, we could go in a lot of different directions from here. One might be to call them up and say there's been a mistake in the degree. You could just make up whatever you wanted at this point.

Like you might say, sorry to inform you, but there's been an error. You didn't take all the courses you needed to earn this degree. I'm sorry, but we have to revoke your degree. and then try to sell them on more courses. Or you might tell them that their certification has expired and they need a new one.

Like you might say, sorry to inform you, but there's been an error. You didn't take all the courses you needed to earn this degree. I'm sorry, but we have to revoke your degree. and then try to sell them on more courses. Or you might tell them that their certification has expired and they need a new one.

Once we told someone their degree wasn't valid until you get an authentication certificate which is signed by a senator. And it costs an extra $7,500 to get that. People were taking this to extreme levels. The company just didn't care how you got money from these people. Just get money from them. Any way you can.

Once we told someone their degree wasn't valid until you get an authentication certificate which is signed by a senator. And it costs an extra $7,500 to get that. People were taking this to extreme levels. The company just didn't care how you got money from these people. Just get money from them. Any way you can.

So, some of us would call the person and pose as the local government and say something like, Sir, I'm calling from the government about your degree. Congratulations on your degree but unfortunately it's not valid in this country until you pay an importation fee of $10,000. And we'd get people to pay us all these extra fees. Dang, that's cold, dude. Yeah.

So, some of us would call the person and pose as the local government and say something like, Sir, I'm calling from the government about your degree. Congratulations on your degree but unfortunately it's not valid in this country until you pay an importation fee of $10,000. And we'd get people to pay us all these extra fees. Dang, that's cold, dude. Yeah.

Or another was that we'd call them posing as a recruiter for a big company. We'd interview them for a job, hire them, but then say, Oh no, you're missing this one qualification. You need to get an English speaking endorsement, which I know where you can get one for $5,000.

Or another was that we'd call them posing as a recruiter for a big company. We'd interview them for a job, hire them, but then say, Oh no, you're missing this one qualification. You need to get an English speaking endorsement, which I know where you can get one for $5,000.

Oh, and remember when we got them to take a picture of themselves in the graduation gown holding the degree? We'd sometimes use that photo against them. And just try to scam them by acting like someone else and saying, you don't know who I am, but I know you bought a fake degree from this school. Pay me $8,000 or I'll show this photo to your boss.

Oh, and remember when we got them to take a picture of themselves in the graduation gown holding the degree? We'd sometimes use that photo against them. And just try to scam them by acting like someone else and saying, you don't know who I am, but I know you bought a fake degree from this school. Pay me $8,000 or I'll show this photo to your boss.

And dude, you guys are straight up extorting people. Yep, it was bad. It was really bad. But it felt so weird because Exact claimed to be the largest IT provider and had these big buildings and a whole fleet of company vehicles. So everywhere you looked, it felt normal and okay. My parents were proud of me for working in the big office building, you know.

And dude, you guys are straight up extorting people. Yep, it was bad. It was really bad. But it felt so weird because Exact claimed to be the largest IT provider and had these big buildings and a whole fleet of company vehicles. So everywhere you looked, it felt normal and okay. My parents were proud of me for working in the big office building, you know.

And having a butler come bring us dinner at home from a five-star restaurant, it was very strange.

And having a butler come bring us dinner at home from a five-star restaurant, it was very strange.

There was one other thing that we might do with the person we are scamming. Sometimes we'd call them up to try to scam them, but they were just like, no way. I know I've been scammed. I paid all this money for a fake degree. You can't scam me for anymore. I'm on to you. Right? Well, in those cases, we would sometimes say, yeah, you know what? You're right. We are scammers.

There was one other thing that we might do with the person we are scamming. Sometimes we'd call them up to try to scam them, but they were just like, no way. I know I've been scammed. I paid all this money for a fake degree. You can't scam me for anymore. I'm on to you. Right? Well, in those cases, we would sometimes say, yeah, you know what? You're right. We are scammers.

But hey, do you want in on it too? And what we do is set up a deal with that person to funnel the money through them, where payments would go through them and they could keep some of it.

But hey, do you want in on it too? And what we do is set up a deal with that person to funnel the money through them, where payments would go through them and they could keep some of it.

The money would get funneled through different accounts and would often end up in the account of a company in Cyprus or Latvia, you know, places that are a little more protected for this type of thing.

The money would get funneled through different accounts and would often end up in the account of a company in Cyprus or Latvia, you know, places that are a little more protected for this type of thing.

Yes, I met him. He would come to the office and meet with the top sales agents. And I'll tell you, he did not seem like, you know, shady or scammy. He appeared genuine and was influential at getting you to do great work. He never talked about all the phony things going on. He only said positive things like how much of an impact we are making giving people an education and it's changing lives.

Yes, I met him. He would come to the office and meet with the top sales agents. And I'll tell you, he did not seem like, you know, shady or scammy. He appeared genuine and was influential at getting you to do great work. He never talked about all the phony things going on. He only said positive things like how much of an impact we are making giving people an education and it's changing lives.

And he encouraged us to achieve excellence in our work. So I don't know if he was the main scammer here.

And he encouraged us to achieve excellence in our work. So I don't know if he was the main scammer here.

One thing about Pakistan is if you have money, you have power. you can get away with doing things that others would be arrested for. Oh, and he was always saying about how he was donating to charities and setting up different things to help the people of Pakistan. So a lot of people liked him.

One thing about Pakistan is if you have money, you have power. you can get away with doing things that others would be arrested for. Oh, and he was always saying about how he was donating to charities and setting up different things to help the people of Pakistan. So a lot of people liked him.

Are you still working there? No, no, no. My wife was not happy with me being part of this and wanted me to quit. So I did. Yeah, I don't work there anymore. I've gone to work for a different tech company. So yeah, that's where we stand today.

Are you still working there? No, no, no. My wife was not happy with me being part of this and wanted me to quit. So I did. Yeah, I don't work there anymore. I've gone to work for a different tech company. So yeah, that's where we stand today.

Hello, hello, Jack. It's nice meeting you. Yeah, I'm excited to hear the story, but it sounds made up. I know. It's crazy, isn't it? Listen, I don't want my voice to be used if it's okay.

Hello, hello, Jack. It's nice meeting you. Yeah, I'm excited to hear the story, but it sounds made up. I know. It's crazy, isn't it? Listen, I don't want my voice to be used if it's okay.

Meet Fazal. Okay, some background about me. I'm from Pakistan, actually. I worked in a call center for eight years.

Meet Fazal. Okay, some background about me. I'm from Pakistan, actually. I worked in a call center for eight years.

There was a group of us. We were all friends working there. But we saw this other company had a whole bunch of openings for call center employees. Exact.

There was a group of us. We were all friends working there. But we saw this other company had a whole bunch of openings for call center employees. Exact.

They had tall buildings all over. Karachi, Islamabad, Lahore. And you know, they had one of the biggest transport fleets as well. So they were big and we were excited. They were like good money and opportunity. We were tired of our call centre anyway. So, you know, it was time.

They had tall buildings all over. Karachi, Islamabad, Lahore. And you know, they had one of the biggest transport fleets as well. So they were big and we were excited. They were like good money and opportunity. We were tired of our call centre anyway. So, you know, it was time.

We started working in their main hub in Karachi. Now, the way this call center would work is we would do customer support for whatever client we'd have. My first client was University in Manchester, England. And this was a little different than what I was used to.

We started working in their main hub in Karachi. Now, the way this call center would work is we would do customer support for whatever client we'd have. My first client was University in Manchester, England. And this was a little different than what I was used to.

But the commission was very small. And not many people would even call that were interested. So the pay for this university was not very good. But inside this call center was a leaderboard. In fact, it would show you this leaderboard every time you logged into the computer. You could see how much money everyone in the call center was making.

But the commission was very small. And not many people would even call that were interested. So the pay for this university was not very good. But inside this call center was a leaderboard. In fact, it would show you this leaderboard every time you logged into the computer. You could see how much money everyone in the call center was making.

And some people were making really great money, like insane amounts, hundreds of thousands. And you could see who their customers were, other universities. And they were very possessive of their clients. Like one day, another team was very busy and one of the calls rolled over to me. And that was for their university.

And some people were making really great money, like insane amounts, hundreds of thousands. And you could see who their customers were, other universities. And they were very possessive of their clients. Like one day, another team was very busy and one of the calls rolled over to me. And that was for their university.

I answered it and immediately someone came running over to me and said, no, no, no, no, transfer that call to me. We have this handled. So I never got a chance to get any good sales from other universities.

I answered it and immediately someone came running over to me and said, no, no, no, no, transfer that call to me. We have this handled. So I never got a chance to get any good sales from other universities.

They assigned this account to our whole group. It was strange. A few people on our team were webmasters, developers. A few were marketers. And then the rest of us were call center workers.

They assigned this account to our whole group. It was strange. A few people on our team were webmasters, developers. A few were marketers. And then the rest of us were call center workers.

They made this website in a couple of days. It looked really good. It looked just as good as any other fancy university out there. It had a list of courses you could take, a whole portal for students to log in and take classes remotely even. In fact, we had to do training so they could show us how to help students take their online courses.

They made this website in a couple of days. It looked really good. It looked just as good as any other fancy university out there. It had a list of courses you could take, a whole portal for students to log in and take classes remotely even. In fact, we had to do training so they could show us how to help students take their online courses.

And they set up courses using Canvas, which a lot of schools use Canvas actually. But they showed us how to help students take their classes.

And they set up courses using Canvas, which a lot of schools use Canvas actually. But they showed us how to help students take their classes.

He was realizing this school doesn't exist. This was something that Exact created from thin air. There was no real university. There was no learning, no classes, nothing. We were taking people's money and giving them fake degrees. Did they know it was fake? Maybe not at first, since we had only a few classes you could take a semester. So to them, it might have felt like they were cheating us.

He was realizing this school doesn't exist. This was something that Exact created from thin air. There was no real university. There was no learning, no classes, nothing. We were taking people's money and giving them fake degrees. Did they know it was fake? Maybe not at first, since we had only a few classes you could take a semester. So to them, it might have felt like they were cheating us.

Because here's the thing. When you go on Canvas to take the course, you can just hit next on every lesson to finish the whole course in minutes. So they'd get done with all their courses in like 20 minutes for the semester. and feel like we're the suckers for not making them go through the course properly.

Because here's the thing. When you go on Canvas to take the course, you can just hit next on every lesson to finish the whole course in minutes. So they'd get done with all their courses in like 20 minutes for the semester. and feel like we're the suckers for not making them go through the course properly.

They even made us fake personas on LinkedIn, which looked like we worked at this university. And so if you looked up the university on LinkedIn, you'd see all these employees there and faculty.

They even made us fake personas on LinkedIn, which looked like we worked at this university. And so if you looked up the university on LinkedIn, you'd see all these employees there and faculty.

I don't think you understand. All of it was given to me. All their information. Yeah, okay, then explain. What do you mean? So, when they had to make an account on this fake school site, they had to enter in an email address for their username and make a password. Well, that password was stored in clear text and given to me.

I don't think you understand. All of it was given to me. All their information. Yeah, okay, then explain. What do you mean? So, when they had to make an account on this fake school site, they had to enter in an email address for their username and make a password. Well, that password was stored in clear text and given to me.

Yeah, I thought the same. Kind of creepy. But it's far worse than that. I was talking with someone from another team. And they said, go to facebook.com and try to log in with this email and password. And we were able to log in to these people's Facebook accounts. Holy cow.

Yeah, I thought the same. Kind of creepy. But it's far worse than that. I was talking with someone from another team. And they said, go to facebook.com and try to log in with this email and password. And we were able to log in to these people's Facebook accounts. Holy cow.