Fiona Hill

I mean, we've taken our eyes off the ball many times.

We've failed to understand the way that people like Putin think.

You know, you talked earlier about, you know, we need to have empathy for all the people who like Trump or like Biden and somehow they think we've got to have strategic empathy about Putin as well.

We've got to understand how the guy thinks and why he thinks like he does.

You know, he has got his own context and his own frame and his own rationale.

And he is rational.

He is a rational actor in his own context.

We've got to understand that.

We've got to understand that he would take offense at something and he would take action over something.

It doesn't mean to say that, you know, we are necessary to blame by taking actions, but we are to blame when we don't understand the consequences of things that we do and act accordingly or, you know, take preventative action or recognize that something might happen as a result of something.

Yeah, remember what I said before, that Putin always tries to, you know, reverse things.

He wants to hear the questions that people have.

Because remember, he himself at different points has been a recruiter, which is, you know, the way that you're operating now as well, right?

You're asking an awful lot of questions.

Your questions also betray, you know, often the times where you're thinking about things, you know, the kind of context, right?

You know, kind of any kind of dialogue like this reveals a lot about, you know, the other person.

And I've actually often, you know, noticed in these settings that Putin likes to have a lot of give and take.

So I think he would actually enjoy having a conversation, you know, with you.

But again, he would always be trying to influence you, inform and influence.

That's kind of, you know, part of the way that he always operates.