Fionnán Sheahan

It had been a protectionism and the whole lot.

And by the way,

Sean Lemass was a great proponent of protectionism for the vast bulk of his life, but he went with the idea of opening to overseas investment, all the multinationals, which we now have, which we still have, that began dismantling tariffs.

Kind of moving from an agriculture-based economy to an industry-based economy.

Absolutely, yeah.

We only have to talk about the census of 100 years ago, which also has come out in the past month very much reflects what the country was.

And it was the Le Mas here that began that transition.

Yeah, and even the hangover, the 1961 census said the population of the 26 counties of the Republic of Ireland was 2.8 million.

It had kept declining since the famine in the 1840s.

So this change was very necessary.

And yet, you'd have to say...

Over the decades, there was always a bit of a whiff of cordite about elements of Fianna Fáil.

The republicanism was still inherent.

If ultimately, if perhaps not taking up arms themselves, but if others were maybe turning a blind eye or providing some assistance, probably encapsulated by the arms trial.

Absolutely.

1970, I remember, at this time of year, May 1970, got up one morning to find, and we didn't have Morning Ireland, found all radio programs were suspended.

And there was a discussion going on with the political correspondents, Arthur Noonan from this radio.

paper, among others, discussing this huge crisis.

The Taoiseach by then was Jack Lynch, new generation, and he had sacked two members of his cabinet and a number of other, two very heavy hitters in Fianna Fáil, Neil Blaney and Charles Haughey, one who was going to dominate Irish politics for the subsequent years.

30 plus years, Kevin Boland, he resigned and others as well and a huge rift and split in the party.