Fionnán Sheahan

He's still 17.

So people are... But Derek Cleary's support level went up.

Yeah, that was really interesting.

Derek Cleary, the social protection minister, former...

deputy leader went from 8 to 15.

That's quite a jump.

And there's this thing in a growing narrative, I think, in political circles where there's all... You've touched on this yourself before, like, who's going to be able to do the glad handing when the day comes?

Who's going to make the trips down the country?

When are the manoeuvres going to start?

And the sense is, Derek Leary is a rural TD, he's the Minister for Rural Affairs, he's been there...

donkey's years there may just be some people begin to change their minds and go maybe this guy he's a steady hand and Dara O'Brien went up marginally but Dara Cleary Dara Cleary is now the new challenger in effect yeah yeah of course

And we would have actually seen in this poll people completely rejecting Leo Varadkar's comments around rural and urban divide, which is interesting too.

I think just maybe touching on this finally is that where does this all go, right?

So it's May now.

We take the presidency in July.

There's a cohort of people in Fianna Fáil who believe, and maybe the wider public, that Micheál Martin may go

And there'll be a bloodless coup after the presidency, maybe in December, January next year, and it gives way to a smooth transition.

Maybe he hangs on to March.

And the risk...

What Fianna Fáil backbenchers said to me today is what they think he could do, which would not be good, would that he may signal his intention to step down early next year, but not step down until he finishes his term as Taoiseach.