Frances Lee

Absolutely, please.

Absolutely, please.

I mean, this was, as was frequently said at the time, a whole of government, whole of society response. And it was undertaken without the normal deliberation that accompanies decision making of that degree of consequence. And, you know, I mean, I remember when the pandemic began that I had some doubts as to whether these measures were going to succeed.

I mean, this was, as was frequently said at the time, a whole of government, whole of society response. And it was undertaken without the normal deliberation that accompanies decision making of that degree of consequence. And, you know, I mean, I remember when the pandemic began that I had some doubts as to whether these measures were going to succeed.

I mean, it was just a normal kind of skepticism about whether government policy would work, which is, you know, sort of bedrock to political science. I mean, that is one of our main topics of inquiry, whether government policy works or whether it has unanticipated consequences. And I was so struck at the lack of skepticism over the course of the pandemic about these measures.

I mean, it was just a normal kind of skepticism about whether government policy would work, which is, you know, sort of bedrock to political science. I mean, that is one of our main topics of inquiry, whether government policy works or whether it has unanticipated consequences. And I was so struck at the lack of skepticism over the course of the pandemic about these measures.

I mean, it was obvious that a large share of the workforce... Lack of skepticism from some. Yes, right. In the quarters, you know, that I travel in among academics or mainstream media, that's where there seemed to be little questioning. It was almost seen as sort of wrong or immoral to raise questions about whether this was feasible for most of the population.

I mean, it was obvious that a large share of the workforce... Lack of skepticism from some. Yes, right. In the quarters, you know, that I travel in among academics or mainstream media, that's where there seemed to be little questioning. It was almost seen as sort of wrong or immoral to raise questions about whether this was feasible for most of the population.

I'd just like to add on this 2019 World Health Organization study. The study was to examine intervention by intervention, which of them have evidence of effectiveness against a respiratory pandemic. And all of the measures were rated as having very poor evidence. So in other words, we don't know if these measures work. Four of them they recommended not to use under any circumstances.

I'd just like to add on this 2019 World Health Organization study. The study was to examine intervention by intervention, which of them have evidence of effectiveness against a respiratory pandemic. And all of the measures were rated as having very poor evidence. So in other words, we don't know if these measures work. Four of them they recommended not to use under any circumstances.

Those four measures were quarantine of exposed persons, border closure, entry and exit screening, and contact tracing. So there were no assurances that these measures would work, but we were assured that they would have costs.

Those four measures were quarantine of exposed persons, border closure, entry and exit screening, and contact tracing. So there were no assurances that these measures would work, but we were assured that they would have costs.

Well, they had been suggested. That's the reason why they are being studied. And of course, we know at some level that viruses transmit from person to person. So one can infer that separating people from one another, putting barriers between them ought to make a difference, or that there's a logic there.

Well, they had been suggested. That's the reason why they are being studied. And of course, we know at some level that viruses transmit from person to person. So one can infer that separating people from one another, putting barriers between them ought to make a difference, or that there's a logic there.

But the question is whether that could be scaled up to society or whether it would be sustainable over the course of a pandemic. There was no body of evidence around that.

But the question is whether that could be scaled up to society or whether it would be sustainable over the course of a pandemic. There was no body of evidence around that.

And so when it became the mantra of the pandemic that we should follow the science, there just wasn't a body of scientific work that undergirded the response that directed us to conclude that these measures were likely to be effective.

And so when it became the mantra of the pandemic that we should follow the science, there just wasn't a body of scientific work that undergirded the response that directed us to conclude that these measures were likely to be effective.

I think under the pressure of the crisis, the public demanding action with the sense of catastrophe unfolding, I think they indulged in a great deal of wishful thinking. And so when advocates of non-pharmaceutical interventions recommended these measures and and were optimistic about it, they heard what they wanted to hear.

I think under the pressure of the crisis, the public demanding action with the sense of catastrophe unfolding, I think they indulged in a great deal of wishful thinking. And so when advocates of non-pharmaceutical interventions recommended these measures and and were optimistic about it, they heard what they wanted to hear.