Francis Fukuyama

And I think the EU needs to strengthen itself in a number of ways.

Basically, the United States made the decision to cut off Ukraine and side with Russia over the past year.

It's a danger that things could get worse, but they're also pretty bad right now.

And I think that without having a tougher response, I mean, Trump is a, you know, he's like a mafia don.

He respects power and he despises weakness.

And I think that Europe has basically demonstrated a lot of weakness so far in responding to him.

And I think the way to change his attitude is to get tougher.

Yeah, we're obviously in a very different period in history where we've had democratic backsliding now for about 20 years and nowhere greater than in the United States itself that was the creator of this liberal international order.

So I guess the question I would raise is, is there an obvious destination that goes beyond this liberal order that anyone has put forward?

And I'm not sure that I actually see that.

Well, there's no better alternative.

And in the long run, you know, liberalism still has certain advantages, such as the fact that you can hold leaders accountable, that if they get into big trouble and do stupid things, that there's a way out.

Russia and China don't have a way out, but the United States does.

And I would not discount the checks and balances that are built into the American political system.

I think they can still work and I, you know, I expect them to.

Oh, that's absolutely the case.

I think that most young people today have no memory of communism or what that represented.

And they can then go on to believe that the EU is a totalitarian dictatorship or that liberal hegemony in the United States is a dictatorship.

They don't understand that the alternative is really a lot worse.

And I think that does create a certain amount of taking for granted liberal institutions and the prosperity and peace that arises from them and hoping for something better.