Gabriel Gatehouse

So politics and football.

So basically the suggestion was that Brazil somehow was interested in a World Cup win politically, right?

Not just in sporting terms.

And that somehow there was some kind of Brazilian involvement in trying to destabilize the England team in this kind of this Bogota bracelet incident.

Now,

It is true that the Brazilian military dictatorship, which came to power in 1964, with a little help from you guys, David, just a little bit of help.

It's an amazing recording.

If you go to the website of the National Security Archive, which is in Washington, D.C., they've got a great tape of Lyndon Johnson telling his CIA director and various other people to...

basically use their imaginations and do whatever it takes to help these military guys in what they need to do.

So look, 1964, the Brazilian dictatorship comes to power with a little bit of help from the Americans.

By 1970, they're becoming pretty repressive, right?

So they're dissidents, left-wingers are being disappeared, tortured, in some cases killed.

And it

Oh my God, are they big football fans, right?

A junta loves football, but like all of Brazil loves football.

As one guy put it to me in the podcast, you know, Brazil, in Brazil, football is literally a religion, right?

It is absolutely massive.

And if you think about the timeline, so Brazil won the World Cup in 1958 under democracy, right?

In 1962, again, they won under democracy.

Then the dictatorship comes to power in 1964.