Garrison Davis

with such scarce resources and managed to make such amazing things, both in terms of physical objects and in terms of these beautiful things we do for each other, with so little.

And the ingenuity that's still there, it's not like people have forgotten how to exist without Timu, right?

But we just haven't created a way, a situation where we have to.

And in mutual aid spaces, I sometimes feel like,

we already have the solution to this which is to depend on and care for each other it's just that we need that to be the way we do everything not not just some stuff exactly

Yeah.

Yeah, it's a fantasy.

I was recently in a place called Chaco Canyon.

I don't know if you're familiar with Chaco Canyon at all.

But there's this idea, I think, that pre the arrival of capitalism, that's how indigenous people lived.

And it's just not.

This was a large, thriving community.

I'm interested in Chaco Canyon because I'm interested in what you're talking about, like a society which consumed at an unsustainable level and then collapsed and what came out of it.

But what came out of it is what kept the working class people in that society alive throughout it, which is helping each other, right?

Like...

Yeah, sure, people had these little plots where they grew grain, but also by doing their ceremonies, by coming together in community, they had something which could sustain them even when the economic reality completely changed for them.

And it's that part that people forget, right?

They think they can...

Yeah, they think they can grow their own food.

Yeah, you can.