Gary Jubelin

It is because it's ongoing manipulation of someone.

And I would dare say that there's people whose lives have been destroyed by this, not just financially, emotionally, psychologically.

You're combining the shame with also losing the relationship too.

So we've all been down when you've lost a relationship.

Yes.

And we've all been shamed.

You combine the two of them together and it's horrible.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm feeling sad for the victims just as you're talking.

With people become aware or it might be a friend, a family member or whatever, and you suspect they're, how would you, well, first of all, with your business, people can reach out to you and you can come in and do the investigation.

and then provide the facts.

Prior to that, what would you suggest to people?

So don't have a big intervention.

Ideally it would be if they came back with the realisation and came back to you and said, I think I've been scammed.

That gives them a bit of dignity.

Well, I suppose that helps to a degree that you haven't been conned by just one person.

You are a victim of organized crime.

And on the issue of organised crime, we're talking off mic about recent things in the media where people are talking about what goes on in these compounds, where these scammers are.

Just tell us what you know about that because I find that frightening that this is what's happening in the compounds that are generating these scams.

It could be terrorism.