George Kamel

Why is money...

such a big indicator of the potential success of a relationship or the potential downfall of one.

had that fear yeah it's a real force i was like as i started to earn money i just was driven to earn more it was like when am i gonna feel safe like when's the bank account gonna be big enough where i feel like i'm not gonna go broke it took a while for me to like breathe and not just sleep on a couch

When I could afford to get a hotel room, I was holding on to it for years.

Yeah.

Well, here's the thing, though.

You're making money.

Do you have a goal for how much money you want to make or have invested for a future retirement?

Oh, yeah.

What's your number?

And I've heard you argue that getting out of debt isn't just a math problem.

It's a behavior problem.

So what is the identity shift that someone has to make before any budget or plan will actually start to stick for them?

Yeah, in every area of life.

And I feel like for whatever reason, you might have a stat on this, but in the last five years, I'm assuming debt has just increased so much by individuals.

First with COVID and kind of the free money that people got and just spending online all day and whatever.

They probably just stayed in that process.

Really?

It's pretty wild.

What is the average debt of an American today?