George Saunders

I mean, I think one could for sure.

And it would be very interesting because I see a lot of vulnerability in him and a lot of – but what I've noticed is – I haven't written about this, so I'm not sure I'm right.

But the tools that a writer brings to this thing tend to favor –

You're constantly putting yourself in that person's shoes, but in fact, you're not in their shoes.

You're you pretending to be in their shoes.

So I definitely think you could... Yes, and you could come up with a version that was a little too soft and didn't truly account for what was making the person...

behave that way that's something i'm really interested in so with this book especially i'm interested because i ended up liking this guy more than i thought i would and the question is is he an accurate representation of the people who actually did these things and that uh

Yes, I'm a big believer in capitalism now.

I think it's totally holy.

No, I mean, I think it's actually – honestly, if you have some success, it actually makes a better vantage point to see the unfairness of the whole thing.

So I think in my lifetime, capitalism has gotten much meaner and much more beautiful.

I had a friend, the writer Michael Herr, who wrote the – Dispatches.

Yeah, Dispatches.

We were friends, and he said one time – he had this kind of beautiful 60s way of speaking.

He said, man –

When the fascists come back, they're not going to wear the jackboots because they already saw that that doesn't work.

So capitalism now is gleaming.

It's as if it's coming from within us.

We all buy into these strange fictions like shareholder value.

So I'm much more, I mean, I'm as aware of it.