George Saunders

Um, but from the minute you, you have that construction, you're making a fundamental error because you're not, uh, you know, you're not centered, not permanent, but, but also the, the construction of the eye is a neurological thing that is very fraught with illusion.

It's, it tells us that we're perceiving correctly, but we're constructing in every instant.

So, I mean, it sounds very woo, but the truth is that that's where a lot of the, um,

the big problems come from because that central delusion gets multiplied.

So when we think about power, okay, what would power look like if we had the correct understanding of our sort of being?

Well, it would have a lot to do with cooperation first, because the idea that you and I are separate is actually demonstrably false.

If you look on a cellular level, it's just a

I think the big struggle of the human race is can we figure out a way to make an accommodation with the essential truth that actually this illusion of self isn't true?

What would that community look like?

And so when I'm thinking about characters, I'm thinking about that, really.

You know, this person has certain desires.

how do those desires square with sort of metaphysical reality?

And then how does that character's actions get him into trouble?

Because he is acting on that delusion of a central self, if that makes sense.

And also because I don't really know that much about it.

It's okay.

Right.

No, of course.

I mean, that's really what the book is about.

There's a relative truth.