George Saunders

You know, he really wasn't in, he was both in and out of relation with what was real.

He knew in some way that he was shilling a falsehood.

So he wasn't in relation to things as they were, except in this false way.

So, yeah, I don't see it.

In other words, from a novelistic standpoint, everything is sacred.

everything is interesting in other words and ideally you're just like in the 60s parlance digging it like oh wow look at that you know a hustler a con man a criminal a saint it's all occurs and therefore it's worthy of your attention and the best book would be one that i have not written yet which lets all of that in with very minimal judgment and even i think a feeling of if we define it correctly celebration like oh look look at this universe it's amazing has anyone written that book

Oh, yeah, Shakespeare.

I mean, I think every great book has some, like a little hint of that in there.

So the idea that you would... I mean, it kind of resonates what we talked earlier about specificity.

In the best of Shakespeare, I think what you feel is...

a God's eye view of someone going, whoa, this is amazing, you know, and laying out on an altar without fear or favor and without, the hardest thing to do for a writer, without tilting the board based on your own viewpoint, you know, the vastness that you feel in him.

And with this book, I worried a lot about

Because of the point of view, we're mostly in his point of view as mediated by Jill.

I didn't have a chance to tell you my political beliefs, you know, my beliefs about climate change.

I only could signal over the character's head to you.

And that was, I could feel that as an act of tension and a sign of my immaturity as a writer.

Because I want you to know that I know he's a bad guy.

Well, I think a more mature writer would be somewhat more open about that, wouldn't be quite so fearful that his political agenda and his shtick, you know, was being hidden.

300.

Wow.